The very idea is utterly shocking.

Someday I'll have to dig out my letter of excommunication, and post it here for the amusement of those who like to follow the chronicles of my cult years.

Actually, my biggest problem with Hymers isn't the fact that he ran (and from what I hear, runs) a cult-like church. It's that underneath it all he's just a rather boring individual.

But I have to get out to the Convention Center today, so I don't have time to get into the mendacity of evil.

Wait. I lied. My biggest issue with Hymers is the fact that I get a ton of traffic for people searching "defloration pics." Apparently, the 'bots see "Hymers" as a misspelling of "hymen."

Of course, it's vaguely appropriate: I lost my cult virginity and my physical virginity in the same organization. The first, by persuasion. The second, by force.

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The kids in Waco weren't just wrenched from their homes; they were burned alive.

But it's okay; it was in the interests of defeating a "cult."

It is perfectly fine to destroy children's lives in order to save them.

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I've avoided commenting on that case, because it cuts a bit too close to the bone. I was, in fact, in a cult for two and a half years—when I was young. I was underage, in case you were wondering. And, yes: I was sexually abused.

But during the entire I was in that "church," I was a human being. The degree to which I had Fourth Amendment rights can certainly be debated, but the adults around me had Fourth Amendment rights. To see those rights trampled upon up close and personal would have been traumatic, and would have spoiled me forever on the State. I'm not sure that either I or the nominal "adults" in R.L. Hymers' church (those over 1 would ever have recovered, had there been a "raid" on our Christian houses.

Stacy McCain:

A kind of Manichean mindset appears to be affecting perceptions of this case. Some people seem to think it's an either-or proposition, and that we must choose to believe one of two things:

The FLDS are harmless and innocent religious eccentrics whose practices are beyond criticism.

... or ...

The FLDS are vicious and dangerous abusers whose practices justify even the most extreme measures by law enforcement.

In other words, this Manichean approach means that our judgment on the actions of Texas officials is made contingent on our opinions of the FLDS. If we think the FLDS are good, then raiding them is bad, and vice-versa.
I reject that approach. Regardless of whether the FLDS are good or evil, they are human beings who have—what was Jefferson's phrase?—"certain unalienable rights." Our rights are not dependent on our popularity; the fat geek has the same rights as the homecoming queen. And freaky religious cultists have the same rights as boring Methodists.

I believe what he's suggesting is that the Bill of Rights doesn't only apply to people we like.

It is a thought to remember.

ALSO: Dr. Shackleford's bogusness detector has been going off. And rightly so.

(Though of course those boring Unitarians might have fewer rights than the rest of us—that's handled in an appendix to the Bill of Rights that few people read any more.)

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This includes: ransacking the surface of a church elder's desk with the swipe of an arm; throwing chairs; slapping female parishioners; knocking over a rack that held religious booklets, sending hundreds of tiny Chick tracts fluttering onto the floor; stalking behavior ("staking out" the homes of people who left his church); breaking pulpits; striking male parishioners; shattering the glass in a framed document during a sermon, so the shards of glass landed in the first few rows of the assembly; abusive language; spitting water from the pulpit.

Good work, Bob.

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I was fourteen years old, and I was tiny. My boyfriend was a tall guy who had no problem forcing himself on me. I never used the word "rape" when I described the event. Rather, I called it "forced sex."

R.L. Hymers and the cult elders called it "sexual sin." I received no counseling. After that incident I lived my life in that "church" under a cloud. On the other hand, I wasn't murdered for dishonoring the "church," so there is a distinction to be drawn between the Hymerites and radical Islamists.

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Someone's started a new site dedicated to the one and only Bobbie Sue—the infamous cult leader R.L. Hymers, Jr.

But how do you tell the parody site fromBobbie Sue's real site? Good Question. The parody site looks good, and is soundly designed. The real site looks like shit, and brings up error messages on your computer screen.

Don't smoke dope, kiddies: it leads to joining cults!

Posted by: Attila Girl at 01:31 PM | Comments (3) | Add Comment
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I admit that I'm puzzled. He's been all over the R.L. Hymers cult for years and years. A shadowy figure, he's granted interviews about his experience in the Hymers "church" and written letters to the editors of various periodicals. He participates in the Yahoo group devoted to warning people about the cultic attributes of Bob Hymers' "ministry."

I know most of these people. But Socrates operates from the shadows. Very mysterious.

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. . . Bob Hymers' website?

I mean, that thing is as ugly as . . . well, it's as ugly as sin. It's as ugly as the man's miserable life's mission of turning people off to Christianity and to all religion/morality. Ugly inside, ugly outside.

P.S. Also—unattractive. In case I wasn't being clear.

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RL Hymers has apparently expressed concern about "slanderous" discussions over the internet of his rather peculiar methodologies for running a church.

A few reminders are in order for my former pastor, Dr. Robert L. Hymers:

1) If it happens in writing, it's libel—not slander.

2) If it's true, it isn't libel. What I write about my experiences in your "churches" (read: cults) is true. I'll carry the scars with me for the rest of my life. Let it be.

Or apologize and renounce preying on the young.

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I guess we were. If you're curious about his church—either the Baptist Tabernacle or its predecessors—feel free to join the Hymer Warners Group (via Yahoo Groups). Members of that group are able to give you a historical perspective you may not be receiving now.

Just be very honest about the reason you're checking it out: Yahoo Group members are very sensitive about hearing "half-truths" from those they suspect of spying on behalf of R.L. Hymers. After all they've been through, I cannot blame them.

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Those who have concerns about the tactics of Bob Hymers, or any of the cults he's presided over (Maranatha Chapel, Open Door Community Churches [House Churchs], Fundamentalist Army, and the current Fundamentalist Baptist Tabernacle) should check out the Hymers Warners Yahoo Group.

It's a good place to get your questions answered, and learn some of the troublesome issues that have led others to flee Hymers' "churches."

Be aware, however, that Hymers' minions do check that site regularly, so if you want to join it, please create a separate confidential identity for yourself (including an unrecognizeable yahoo/gmail email address) if you're afraid of being found or identified by your current/former "brethren." Also, be prepared to explain to former Cult members why you are interested in getting answers: keep in mind that they are accustomed to deception and manipulation from Hymers and those who work for him, and presume (correctly, I believe) that Hymers will be monitoring the site through proxies.

This all may seem a bit cloak-and-dagger, but those who have emerged from the R.L. Hymers Cult(s) know how litigation-happy he can be—and that he is not above other forms of harrassment and intimidation.

Quite the man of God. Sigh.

The man has twin sons. Please pray that they will be able to break free of their father's influence someday to live rich, full lives. One always worries about the second generation in any cult: after all, the parents chose that life. Cult children were born into it.

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. . . is never to join the cult in the first place. There is a Yahoo group set up specifically to answer questions people might have about the R.L. Hymers "church." It's even open to members of the cult who might wonder what they're getting into—or how to get out.

The former Hymerites' experience spans at least two decades of the cult's existence. (I should say, "the cults' existence," since Bob Hymers keeps changing the name of his group. His cults were/are, in order: Maranatha Chapel, The Open Door Community Churches, The Fundamentalist Army, and now the Baptist Tabernacle, aka "oh, a church near the Staples Center.")

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. . . with Robert L. Hymers; you're embarassing yourselves.

Here's a nice little meditative essay on a tract R.L. Hymers wrote regarding the dangers of Halloween.

"We're not laughing with death," the author declares. "We're laughing at it.

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For those who have been tracking the process as I explore my "cult" years, there's information at the livejournal of a gentleman named Doxa that may prove illuminating. It appears that Bob Hymers' group, the Baptist Tabernacle, has become even more twisted as time has gone by.

You might turn the volume down on your computer before you go, if you find—as I do—that music is hard to read to if it contains words. (Of course, it could be that I'm the only baby boomer who cannot cope with background music in that way. I can live with that.)

• Doxa on the Hymerites' clumsy "outreach"; we discover that cell phones are the work of the devil;

• A friend of Doxa's finds out that clothes make the woman;

• Doxa strategizes about how to politely make Ileana Hymers go away.

Virginia Woolf: "I thought about how unpleasant it was to be locked out. Then I thought about how much worse it was to be locked in."

[I'm paraphrasing, but I believe I'm awfully close. Anyone who wants to find the quotation in Room of One's Own should fact-check my ass, here. Thanks.]

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1 I'm curious to know how they have changed over the years, specifically in light of my experience. I suppose cellphones weren't very common in the 70's. I wonder when they started banning cell phones at church. Sorry about the BGM. To tell the truth, I usually mute my computer when I go to my blog... I love the song, so I put it up there, but I wish it didn't play every single time... If at least I knew how to embed buttons on my blog to control the music (like they do on myspace). I guess I just need to do a little search for a code.

Posted by: doxa at January 09, 2006 09:20 PM (v5ykV)

2 You forgot to put a link where we could "fact check" your ass or to we email you to sent up an appointment in person?

Posted by: joe at January 10, 2006 10:12 AM (P6pqJ)

3 Oh, so you're going to get literal-minded for the sake of a cheap joke I assure you that my butt is the essence of integrity. My husband will vouch for its accuracy. If you're like an appointment with him, however, that's fine. He is, however, 6'2", a former Marine, and armed to the teeth.

Posted by: Attila Girl at January 10, 2006 05:36 PM (/y+/O)

4 wepylrzoftzzaycwdwgyoyowlgoqbuadpvxseha
link http://oeultv.gezabrm.com

Posted by: ovmbqm at January 25, 2006 02:49 PM (qQS/K)

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. . . seem to be concerned that he not take in any more innocent people with his warped execution of (otherwise conventional) Christianity.

And from the caption on the photo, it looks like they're, well, annoyed at him.

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Wow. I'm getting a lot of responses to my post on R.L. Hymers—some in the comments section, and some via e-mail.

If what I'm hearing is correct, Dr. Hymers' efforts to control the lives of young people has changed a little in its focus, but not at all in its intensity.

Apparently, these days Bob Hymers' church, the Baptist Tabernacle of Los Angeles, is using different techniques to indoctrinate people into his brand of Christianity. As I've said before, my argument with his approach is not a doctrinal/theological one; I will leave those types of arguments to people who are qualified. My concerns have to do with the methods he and his wife, Ileana Hymers, use to gain followers: methods which mirror those of cults so closely as to be indistinguishable, as a practical matter.

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1 Well, it was a good post. I was in the Open Door Community Churches from 1978 - 1982 and left at the age of 18 - so I speak from experience. I think your description of Hymers and his tactics are pretty much right on. I also think your experiece there has given you some good insight. Thanks for letting us in on some of it

Posted by: Michael at January 03, 2006 12:46 AM (PpP57)

2 Hi Atilagirl...i was at the then Open Door Community Church from 1977 through 1981. In fact I pastored one of the local churches in Hollywood. I've enjoyed reading your Hymerian Blog entries! What years did you attend? You must know Jeff Koenig right? I was introduced to the ODCC by him - Jeff "evangelized" Chris Cagan (who is Hymer's right hand man and co-author of many of his books.) Chris then invited Jeff over one fatelul day to convince me to go to their house church in Santa Monica. Anyway...sigh...that was a lifetime ago. I will never forget many things about my involvement at ODCC - but most prominent in my mind is the last meeting I attended. It was at the Bronson High School auditoreum. I had spoken with Hymers by phone during the week at had told him that I would not return to the ODCC unless he repented from his uncontrolled anger and raging. So on Sunday, August 9, 1981 he decided to answer my ultimatum by railing at me from the pulpit before a crowd of about 1300. Yes...that was how large the group had grown by mid-81. This was also, I believe the high point as far as attendance is concerned. Anyway, as Hymers railed, I carefully planned my exit, I waited for the offering to be taken and proceeded past a phalanx of ushers to take my wife by the hand (she was up front playing piano) and exit from the auditoreum I will never forget the feeling of, in the words of Crowded House singer Neil Finn "liberation and release." As we literally ran from the the Bronson auditoreum...it was like an escape from a concentration camp! When were you there? I probably knew you.

Posted by: Rafael at January 09, 2006 06:19 AM (Zhlwz)

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