It seems to me that Methodists rarely file suit against markets over having to stock alcohol on grocery shelves.

Perhaps I'm wrong about that.

Admittedly, passions ran higher among temperance true believers on both sides of the Atlantic in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. See Nation, Carrie, and the entire American temperance movement which went so far as to bring us a law that in turn begat the Mafia (speaking of unintended consequences).

As far as England is concerned, one of Jill Paton Walsh's Lord Peter/Harriet Vane mysteries is set in WW II, and makes the point that a small country town's main bomb shelter is under the pub, but the town's Methodists do not want to look at the barrels of wine stored underneath, and so they have a separate bomb shelter of their own.

Back to this side of the Atlantic:

(1) Are Mormons in Utah given special permission not to have to handle liquor if they work in casinos?

(2) How about Mormons in Utah itself?

The most absurd example I've ever seen of Islam stubbornness on the issue of alcohol has to do with a friend who was a nurse telling me that Muslim visitors refused to use hand sanitizers in the the areas of the hospital that required it. After all—it contains alcohol. (Where in the Koran does it forbid topical application of alcohol to kill germs?)

Seriously: Muslims must not get any concessions on this issue that devout Methodists do not. And given the fact that there have been Methodists in Britain for a long time, there have to be legal precedents that can be applied here.

Please do not bring all Mark Steyn's nightmares come true.

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This kind of puts my recent argument with my dad into perspective (Kal's rhetorical excesses and spelling mishaps notwithstanding).

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Hey—I'm just askin'.

The story just put me in mind of Blender Man—that's all.

(Look, I don't want to be an asshole, though I guess I am one when all is said and done. But if piggies are bad and doggies are bad and footsies are bad, and genitalia are bad, and all parts of the female body are bad . . . um, what are we allowed to talk about? Shouldn't there be a few things out there that aren't taboo, just to humor the writers and the poets and the photographers, and Madison Avenue?)

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Goddamn.

If you need me, I'll be drinking myself into a stupor.

Mother England: must we re-fight the Revolutionary War all over again? I thought we were in a groove, here . . .

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I'm sorry any of us Westerners ever suggested that the "religion of peace" has adherents that do not live up to that slogan.

I see that I was quite wrong about that.

I won't let it happen again.

(Via Memeorandum.)

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Who knew that this might happen?

Allam, author of numerous books and deputy editor of Milan’s Corriere della Sera, joins a list of converts from Islam which includes many other public intellectuals and millions of average people from all over the world. This is more than the normal flow between two large religious communities. Islam can point to little in the way of recent conversions. Its claim to be the world’s fastest-growing religion stems mostly from the high birth rate in Islamic countries, whose infant mortality rates have been cut by the introduction of Western medicine. Christian growth is based on adult conversion. As leading Christian evangelist Wolfgang Simpson writes, “More Muslims have come to Christ in the last two decades than in all of history.”

Although al-Qataani points to Africa, there is another phenomenon based on repulsion from Islamist dictatorship, corruption, and terrorist violence. In Iran as many as 1 million people have surreptitiously converted to Evangelical Christianity in the last five years. Pastor Hormoz Shariat claims to have converted 50,000 of them through his U.S.-based Farsi-language satellite ministry. He contrasts the upswing to the efforts of evangelical missionaries in Iran between 1830 and 1979, whose 149 years of work built a Christian community of only 3,000. One Iranian religious scholar believes youth are abandoning Islam because it is identified with the corrupt Iranian government. Now the Iranian Majlis (parliament) is debating the death penalty for conversion.

After years of al-Qaeda war on Iraq, a similar phenomenon is growing. The New York Times March 4 reports: “After almost five years of war, many young people in Iraq, exhausted by constant firsthand exposure to the violence of religious extremism, say they have grown disillusioned with religious leaders and skeptical of the faith that they preach.” A high school girl tells Times reporters: “I hate Islam and all the clerics because they limit our freedom every day and their instruction became heavy over us. Most of the girls in my high school hate that Islamic people control the authority because they don’t deserve to be rulers.” A 19-year-old man says: “The religion men are liars. Young people don’t believe them. Guys my age are not interested in religion anymore.” A Baghdad law professor explains that her students “have changed their views about religion. They started to hate religious men. They make jokes about them because they feel disgusted by them.” A 24-year-old female college student says, “I used to love Osama bin Laden. Now I hate Islam. Al-Qaeda and the Mahdi Army are spreading hatred. People are being killed for nothing.”

Via Memeorandum.

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. . . on LiveLeak, Fitna, Islamic violence, Islamic gynophobia, and how "pathetic" we are in the first half of the 21st Century.

He seems . . . irritated. But maybe that's me.

Thank you, AllahP.

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So it's completely different. Ace of Spades:

Britain, which nobly stamped out the scourge of slavery in much of the world, is on the brink of re-instituting it in order to "maintain social cohesion."

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. . . when they see it?

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A lot of Methodists don't approve of drinking, either.

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on behalf of See Jane, her new entertainment watchdog group that looks at issues of gender disparity in children's entertainment. So far, most of their research has focused on strict counting of characters in shows, which I don't find useful. What I find more interesting is the mushy, subjective stuff: how many strong female protagonists are there, for example? The number of "extras" in a cartoon that are male doesn't matter much to me.

And, needless to say, I'm in favor of neither government mandates on these issues, nor arbitrary guidelines that place handcuffs on writers and story editors. There are enough restraints on creativity in the world of children's programming as it is.

Nonetheless, it's worth keeping an eye on, so to speak: the idea of female visibility/freedom implied in a group like See Jane is another one of the fundamental liberal values that we need to promote. It is yet another Western notion that is under threat by Islamo-Fascism.

Just as I seek to make common cause with moderate Muslims, so I also intend to continue my dialogue with feminists who are seeking to enhance female visibility, support continuing opportunities for women, and fight the spread of Sharia law and other fundamentally sexist, oppressive political systems worldwide.

Very often, of course, the moderate Muslims and the creative feminists will turn out to be the same people. And that is delightful.

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1 In comedy, a woman can hit a man and people will laugh. A man hitting a woman is never treated as anything but the horrendous crime it is. Unless Geena Davis is interested in correcting that double standard, I am not interested in her organization.

Posted by: John at August 07, 2007 04:06 PM (ZNOPy)

2 I bet you pictured her with a cell phone tower on her head, right?

Posted by: Darrell at August 07, 2007 07:02 PM (xEZec)

3 I actually think there is a lot to be done in the arena of violence against men by women--so much domestic violence goes contrary to the establised myths. (And that's not even getting into gay-on-gay domestic violence.) But Davis is speaking as a concerned parent: her goals are long-term ones regarding how we educate our girls to grow up into independent women. And that is, in fact, one of the Western world's strengths vis a vis the Islamofascists: our boys (and girls) are brought up by women who know what they need to know, and can teach them a good part of what they'll be using to get by in the world. The I-F's still expect "a servile womb to breed free men." And, D, I'm not sure: I can never see Ms. Davis's face. It's just too far up there. Thank goodness for television monitors.

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 08, 2007 05:32 AM (Dbg3S)

4 The I-F's still expect "a servile womb to breed free men." Um, no. Servile wombs, yes. Free men? no. At least not in the sense we understand "free".

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at August 08, 2007 06:08 AM (1hM1d)

5 "are brought up by women who know what they need to know, and can teach them a good part of what they'll be using to get by in the world" Geez Attila I have read this at a couple of times and still cannot make any sense of what these women know. Please enlighten us all what values are imparted in the western world that eliminate domestic violence. And speaking of your knowledge about other cultures, let me know how many muslim countries you have been to and what kind of statistics you have gathered while you were doing your PHD.

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at August 08, 2007 11:23 PM (mdszq)

6 Well, there is the fact that when domestic violence does occur in the West, it is treated as a serious CRIMINAL matter. How about that?

Posted by: Darrell at August 09, 2007 10:32 AM (oOHHZ)

7 Don't get me wrong Attila, I am just asking where you get your information from? Is there a class offered in Harvard or MIT called Islmo-fascism 101 that I missed out on? Where the west is compared with the east and it is proven once and for all that one way is better than the other. Did you do your research in different cultures and are now ready to publish your results? Or do you make this stuff up on your own, assuming that since this is your blog nobody will dare challenge you. And now to you Darrell, treating it as a serious criminal matter has solved the problem according to you? And we should not even bother with it, at least here in the West? Gimme a break!

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at August 09, 2007 02:07 PM (mdszq)

8 Azmat, (1) I'm not big on formal schooling/credentials. If you want to read someone who has a doctorate, I could certainly provide you with some pointers. Or you might try searching "blog Ph.D.," or some such. (2) My entry wasn't about domestic violence at all, but if you're interested in studying the rates of domestic violence among Westerners (including Muslims) vs. that among fundamentalist Muslms, and those who live under Islamist regimes, you could start by researching laws in the different countries/populations involved. [a] You might compare the rate of "honor killings" within populations; You might look at how many battered women's shelters there are in Muslim countries, vs. in Western/Westernized countries. You might look at what percentage of women in battered women's shelters in, say, London, are women from traditionalist Muslim households vs. those who are from other demographics (e.g., Hindus, non-believers, Jews, and Christians). Domestic violence is a difficult problem to solve. I'm not certain we'll ever completely eliminate it. However, the rate is bound to be lower among groups that do not promote the murder of one's own daughter as a "necessity" under certain circumstances (e.g., she's been raped, or she was seen talking to a man--or, heaven forfend--actually dated one). This is, of course, just a theory of mine: I haven't set about proving it, or published it in a paper. Call it a hunch.

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 09, 2007 06:15 PM (VgDLl)

9 Treating it as a criminal matter EVERY TiME IT OCCURS is a start. Better than treating it as a birthright, wouldn't you say? Got any degrees from Harvard or MIT, Azmat? Be honest now . . . And, btw, if the East is so superior, what are you doing here? Airline screwup? I'm still confused.

Posted by: Darrell at August 09, 2007 06:22 PM (jX1sL)

10 I am needed here ! And I never said anything about superior, its all the same to me. And who told you that domestic violence was a birthright, just another of many lies, that you have accepted without question. As far as the Law is concerned, you are making my argument for me. "our boys (and girls) are brought up by women.." If they are brought up in such a manner then why would you need such tough Laws? And Attila, You want me to look at statistics, I suggest you do the same and while you are at it visit some other countries and gain some perspective, I plan to go to India and Pakistan this Christmas, you are more than welcome to be my guest Just pay for your ticket I will take care of the rest. I am so glad to see you acknowledge your theory and hunch. You are on the right track if you are able to recognize that you have made up this bias opinion without any evidence. 1. Honor killings happen in every culture 2. how many battered women's shelter? What does that prove that there are more battered women here, because there are more shelters here? 3. Percentage of women from muslim countries, would probably be lower per capita, check it out. Even though it is an inappropriate sample.

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at August 09, 2007 06:58 PM (mdszq)

11 I'd love to see your examples of honor killings among Jews, Christians, Hindus and athiests. Or among Europeans, Indians, blacks or Buddhists. In short, I'd be interested in any honor killings among the above demographics within the last 100 years. And I'd love to go to India and Pakistan! Unfortunately, I can't afford a ticket right now. Dang!

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 09, 2007 07:10 PM (VgDLl)

12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouztv-tRPKM&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2EFCYc2JhY&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri3BC7KCAUw&mode=related&search=

Posted by: Darrell at August 10, 2007 11:38 AM (PcpOG)

13 Attila, I have personally seen honor killings right here happening every day. You are unable to see it! Let me give you only three examples: 1: A marine comes back home and finds his wife has been cheating on him. He kills her, and commits suicide. I don't know what you call it, I call it honor killing. 2. A young girl that I knew, was kicked out of her house at the age of 16 because she was hooked on drugs. One night she came to her mother begging to please let her in. The mother refused, the next day the girl was found dead! The mother protected her honor, call it tough love, but lost a daughter, that in my books is honor killing. 3. A father killed himself and his family, it came out that he was about to be exposed and out of guilt and shame he killed his whole family. There are hundreds of such stories, and you might not see it as honor killing, because it does not fit your paradigm. Now as far as the links are concerned Darrell, those of us who refuse to think for ourself, use that as a crutch. You are more than welcome to post a dozen links, but just a simple thought from your own brain makes for a far more convincing argument. Unless you want me to think that like other organs in your body, you have decided to retire that organ and replace it with an electronic device. And Attila, If $1500 is a lot of money for you, I can raise that for you. We will raise it on the website. Don't let that be your reason, If you really want to experience the world and are curious and want to know what it is really like, there is always a way. Then again, some don't want to think outside their comfort zone. And maybe you are not willing to confront your bias yet.

Posted by: Azmat Hussain at August 11, 2007 01:46 PM (mdszq)

14 I have mechanical devices too.

Posted by: Darrell at August 11, 2007 07:34 PM (n8JqU)

15 You'll have to give me a raincheck, Az. If only I had fewer clients right now, I'd kill to go to India OR Pakistan. Next time, maybe. D:

Posted by: Attila Girl at August 13, 2007 03:02 AM (VgDLl)

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Because people like booze, freedom, and sex.

Yup. I think they do. And not only can a servile womb fail to breed free men—it isn't very likely to breed truly effective servile ones, either.

When I was young and feisty, I used to dream of going to Afghanistan—during the Taliban's reign, of course—with my Glock in a small-of-the-back holster, and taking off my shirt and bra. And then mowing down, quite deliberately, those who cast the first-through-thirtieth stones. (I have an extended magazine for that particular sidearm.)

Of course, no radical Islamist deserves to see my boobs—even as his dying image.

The beautiful thing is that nothing so grandiose will be necessary: the culture will decay from the inside, out. And now it's their own women who are stripping for the webcams. Game, set, and match.

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Iowahawk reports:

Kohut pointed to one of the study's key findings that only 29% of all respondents agreed that "bloody, random violence against infidels" was "always" or "frequently" justified, versus 56% who said such violence was "seldom" or "never" justified. The approval of violence rose slightly among younger Lutherans and when the hypothetical violence was targeted against Presbyterians, but still fell well short of a majority.

"The only demographic cohort we saw where murderous random violence had a majority support was among 18-35 year old male followers of the Wisconsin Synod," said Kohut. "And that was barely above the margin of error. Even then, fewer than half (41% to 46%) said they would personally volunteer to carry out the violence themselves."

Further bolstering the findings, Kohut noted that fewer than 6% of respondents physically attacked field interviewers during the survey.

So, nothing to worry about. Except for the Presbyterians, of course—but I'm not one of them, so all is well.

I called up Sean and asked him to read me the dialogue from Iowahawk's article, since I can't really do the accent myself. "Would you read this aloud—and Fargo it up for me, please?" I enquired.

He refused, so we aren't friends any more.

But now I find myself checking under my car for bombs every day. Young Lutheran males, you know . . .

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We could be operating without the separation of church and state, as Britain is.

What a great idea: public funding of Islamic schools, without any particular oversight.

Personally, I don't see what the European aversion to headscarves is all about, and I don't have any problem with non-Muslim girls wearing headscarves in Muslim schools. After all, we expect non-Catholic kids to wear uniforms when they go to Catholic schools, and we expect goyim men to wear yarmulkes when they attend synogogues. This is perfectly appropriate.

What I don't get—as usual—is tolerance of the intolerant. Such as accrediting or authorizing schools that refer to Jews as monkeys, and Christians as pigs. And I don't see providing public funds for educational establishments that promote values sharply at odds with those of the society at large.

Just as the Constitution wasn't meant to be a suicide pact, Classical Liberalism was not intended that way. What is going on in the West?

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Among the Cotillion bloggers, we argue about this a great deal: some feel that Islam itself is a threat to liberalism and democracy. Some see the possibility that "moderate Muslims" can be brought back from the verge of extinction; others remain tremendously skeptical.

I think we all know that columnist Mark Steyn—a stud/god in so many other respects—is in the latter category.

I agree that Islam must be reformed, but I sympathize with those who are to do the reforming, since they risk death. That's why I admire the members of Muslims for America, and it is why I salute the participants in the recent Secular Islam Summit in St. Petersberg, Florida. Tashbih Sayyed reports at Family Security Matters:

Muslims being brought up under the tutelage of Islamism refuse to allow their co-religionists to think independently and indulge in individual reasoning. The situation has forced the world to believe that Muslims will always remain a threat to world peace and stability unless they find a way to challenge some of IslamÂ’s perceived foundations that are frozen in a time when barbarism, cruelty, ethnic cleansing and muzzling of opposing voices was the norm.
These were some of the thoughts on the minds of many who participated in a recently concluded Secular Islam summit in St. Petersburg, Florida, that was organized by the Center for Inquiry of New York. The summit provided Muslims with a platform to voice their concerns regarding the regressive hold of radical Islam on their lives. The summit empowered the Muslims to challenge the growing power of political Islam that threatens freedoms totally and absolutely. The SummitÂ’s success ensured that the free thinking Muslims now have a stage and visibility to propose new ideas, introduce new concepts and advance the causes of secularism without being lynched.

It's hard to forget what happened to Theo Van Gogh, and to so many others who dared to criticize Islam and Islamism—both from within the faith and outside it. Read the whole thing for some of the grim stories, and a message of hope.

All we can do in this country is protect speech, encourage debate, and create a "zone of safety" around those who have left Islam and those who attempt to cure its pathologies from within. I'm not sure whether we are "America alone." But we are the foremost promoters of free speech in the world; we are the nation that placed it first on a list of entitlements God grants to human beings. And we are its primary safeguard in the world.

That could make us Islam's best hope. And that's irony you can take to the bank.

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God bless him, he still wants to persuade people that Islamofascism is a real menace. (As do I, of course—in case you weren't paying attention.)

She had just told me that “we’re all in this together. I don’t care if you’re Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist.” Good for you. Unfortunately, they do care. In Gaza, in Sudan, in Kashmir, in southern Thailand, they care very much. But the great advantage of cultural relativism is that it absolves you of the need to know anything. For, if everything’s of equal value, why bother learning about any of the differences?

On the whole I prefer those Americans who tune out the foreign-policy bores for wall-to-wall Anna Nicole Smith coverage: at least theyÂ’ve got an interest—ask them about the latest scoop on the identity of the father of her child and theyÂ’ll bring you up to speed. By contrast, a large number of elite Americans are just as parochial and indifferent to the currents of the age; the only difference is that they choose to trumpet it as a moral virtue.

Holy shit. What if he's right? I'm always afraid of that with Steyn, you know.

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. . . right here.

Via Insty.

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. . . comments on Mark Steyn's America Alone.He grants Steyn's general argument, though he brings a bit more nuance to the discussion, along with that athiest liberal perspective that's been missing in so many quarters.

And that lovely, lovely mind of his.

Insty turned me on to this one. I go to Steyn's digs multiple times a week, but I do neglect Hitchens a bit. No more: Hitchens really is what I took Sullivan for several years ago. He's a truly independent thinker, and an important voice.

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I'm reading America Alone. Demographics, Mark Steyn argues, are destiny—and America is way ahead of Europe and Japan in terms of replacing its citizenry with another generation that shares the same cultural imprint.

He continually concedes that most Muslims are not terrorists, but reminds us that the vast majority of them do want to live under Sharia law, and points out that Europe's future is likely to be a sort of "good cop/bad cop" routine between the jihadis and their more moderate fellow travellers.

He points to the U.S. as the only place where we are reproducing and continuing to assert a national identity. We require some assimilation on the part of our immigrants, and Steyn sees this as a healthy thing.

Very provocative, and mostly correct. More later on the divine Mr. Steyn.

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. . . as a Catholic-Muslim "Ecumenical Temple."

Via Insty.

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