March 22, 2008
Ferraro on the Obama "Race" Speech . . .
She
praised it, but had a lot to say about his inclusion of her on the same continuum with Rev. Wright—and on his implication that the impetus for Ferraro herself to resign from Senator Clinton's campaign didn't originate in pressure from Obama's camp. Because, of course, it did.
What surprises me is that—given (1) the fact that it appears to underscore his own hypocrisy, and (2) the fact that Ferraro is a free agent now, no longer restricted by being linked to Clinton's campaign—Obama chose to bring Ferraro back into this mess. As Ed Morrissey points out at Hot Air, this issue "isn't going away." Why borrow trouble in this way, given everything else that the Obama campaign has on its plate?
It's just odd.
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March 21, 2008
A Diary in Los Angeles Riots
Well, of course my memory of the
Watts riots is a bit hazy; after all, I was only three years old when they erupted.
Mostly I'm thinking of the Rodney King riots, and The Riots That Didn't Happen—after the O.J. Simpson verdict. Ace ran a clip last night of the Reginald Denny beating, and just seeing it alluded to brought back a lot of memories. (I think the video has since been taken down—but that's okay. Those days—and the television footage thereof—are seared, seared into my memory.)
During disasters‐natural and man-made—I watch a lot of television, which is different from my normal M.O. (Generally it's difficult for me to remember what day of the week it is, and therefore whether there's something on that I like—furthermore, my time management skills don't allow me to go find a television in time to see what I might actually want to look at. Also, I'm not a channel-surfer: I hate seeing little chunks of television- and movie-salad. Plus, the television is on my husband's side of the house. Okay, okay: I just don't have the self-discipline and attention span that television-watching requires. Are you happy?)
I watched TV during the riots in 1992, and after the earthquake in 1993. I did the same thing most of the day on 9/11. It messed with my sense of time. (Attila the Hub informs me that I was the one who coined the term "riot potatoes" to describe our actions—or lack thereof—after the Rodney King verdicts.)
After The Riots That Weren't (post-O.J. verdict), I didn't watch television. But I remembered us being prepared for "civil unrest" beforehand. I know I went to my mother's house and made her accept one of my guns (she subsequently kept it, the dirty little thief).
But what distinguished the Rodney King riots from the O.J. Simpson verdict non-riots was what happened to race consciousness during the King riots: Outside of South Central, Hollywood, Koreatown, and the other affected areas, the races actually drew closer together in some communities. I waited in line for an hour to buy groceries near my boyfriend's apartment in Glendale—we were preparing to hunker down for a kind of seige—and there were certainly black people in line. We all talked about how horrible it was that it was all happening, and how we hoped it would be quiet, finally, that night.
A black friend of mine talked about growing up in Pacoima, in a rough part of town. His neighborhood was so bad that he and his friends once found a dead body in the trash dumpster. "I never rioted," he declared indignantly. That's how most black people felt. Remember?
So on a weird level, despite the burning and looting and horrific loss of life, the King riots didn't make me feel like I was living in a black-and-white world. They seemed, instead, to open farther the chasm between, as Dennis Prager puts his own dividing line for the human race, "the decent and the indecent."
After the O.J. Simpson verdict, though, I remember walking around and looking at all the black people smiling and honking their horns at each other, and thinking that they all appeared delighted about women getting their heads nearly sliced off, as long as those women happened to be white. It took Rush Limbaugh to put it all into perspective, and to tell his white listeners that the celebrations among African-Americans weren't as they appeared to us—rather, people were happy that, for once in a case that carried a certain level of notoriety, a black man benefited from the legal presumption of innocence in this country. That made me feel a lot better.
But I, for the record, don't think we needed a "national conversation on race." What we need is transcendence. What we need is to cultivate our ability to look at people as individuals, rather than as skin on some kind of goddamned global Pantone Matching System.
What we need is the thing Obama suggested early on in his primary campaign he just might be able to bring to the table—the thing that, despite my disagreements with him on economic issues, filled me with an odd sort of excitement: a sense that history might finally become history, after all. That we had a chance of acquiring to do that skill with race in this country that we have with religion, for the most part—a knack for putting it aside in the public sphere. Not denying it; acknowledging it and getting on with life. Looking at the bigger picture.
And that is the one thing Barack Obama cannot do for this country. The more he opens his mouth, the more any a American's essence appears to be summoned up in how easily he or she can get a freakin' suntan.
That isn't my vision for this country. Is it yours?
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I remember the Rodney King Riot, I was here on a business trip (this was before I moved back to LA). Whites, Blacks and Browns were burning and looting, and Whites, Blacks and Browns were trying to put out the fires. The Hawthorne Mall never recovered and stands empty to this day. Some want to characterize it as a "peoples uprising," it was no such thing. It was greed.
Posted by: chuck at March 21, 2008 10:28 PM (H4W1a)
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This is not my vision either.
Posted by: Chuck at March 21, 2008 10:32 PM (H4W1a)
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"Two Schools of Thought on That."
Obama's "race relations" speech, that is.
Krauthammer in
WaPo:
Obama was supposed to be new. He flatters himself as a man of the future transcending the anger of the past as represented by his beloved pastor. Obama then waxes rhapsodic about the hope brought by the new consciousness of the young people in his campaign. Then answer this, Senator: If Wright is a man of the past, why would you expose your children to his vitriolic divisiveness? This is a man who curses America and who proclaimed moral satisfaction in the deaths of 3,000 innocents at a time when their bodies were still being sought at Ground Zero. It is not just the older congregants who stand and cheer and roar in wild approval of Wright's rants, but young people as well. Why did you give $22,500 just two years ago to a church run by a man of the past who infects the younger generation with precisely the racial attitudes and animus you say you have come unto us to transcend?
Noonan, WSJ:
The Obamas, he and she, may not actually know all that much about America. They are bright, accomplished, decent, they know all about the yuppie experience, the buppie experience, Ivy League ways, networking. But they bring along with all this -- perhaps defensively, to keep their ideological views from being refuted by the evidence of their own lives, or so as not to be embarrassed about how nice fame, success, and power are -- habitual reversions to how tough it is to be in America, and to be black in America, and how everyone since the Reagan days has been dying of nothing to eat, and of exploding untreated diseases. America is always coming to them on crutches.
But most people didn't experience the past 25 years that way. Because it wasn't that way. Do the Obamas know it?
This is a lot of baggage to bring into the Executive Mansion.
Still, it was a good speech, and a serious one. I don't know if it will help him. We're in uncharted territory. We've never had a major-party presidential front-runner who is black, or rather black and white, who has given such an address. We don't know if more voters will be alienated by Mr. Wright than will be impressed by the speech about Mr. Wright. We don't know if voters will welcome a meditation on race. My sense: The speech will be labeled by history as the speech that saved a candidacy or the speech that helped do it in. I hope the former.
Is that because she loves to hear Faulkner quoted, and loves it when a speech is given in "paragraphs" rather than sound-bites, or is it because she so loathes the candidacy of Hillary Clinton?
I respect Noonan, though—and if I can steal some time away from houseselling/househunting, I'll re-read the Obama speech.
That's a big "if," of course . . .
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The speech really was great, at least on paper. When I heard excerpts of his reading it on NPR, the delivery seemed a bit flat.
Or rather, it was great until page 6 of 7, where he said all that wonderful uniting stuff was to pass national healthcare, retreat from Iraq, and dump more money into the greedy maw of the teachers' unions.
So he really sounded like a new, fresh voice with a conversation worth having ... and then it dissolved into trite New Deal bromides.
Sad, really. He had a chance to really sound transformative, and he blew it.
I think a lot of those who reviewed the speech tuned out at the end.
Hope that was interesting.
D
Posted by: David H Dennis at March 21, 2008 07:54 PM (JWldd)
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Can't the Democrats All Just
. . .
get along?
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I'm Glad There's a Trigger on those Records.
But it's not like the candidates' teams had access to
FBI files.
Well, not most of 'em, anyway . . .
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March 20, 2008
It's So Good to Know
. . . there's still a little
magic in the air; I'll
weave my spell say farewell.
(With hearty apologies to Queen, the band that transcended prog-rock.)
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March 19, 2008
Holy Crap.
Dan Collins
remarks on some juicy, jaw-dropping quotations from The Greenwald Gang (aren't they triplets? quadruplets? quintuplets? I don't know, frankly, how many of 'em there are).
Bottom line: some people actually bought the Obama speech. Like, really.
Collins to Greenwald, who felt that those who criticized Obama were engaging in a "double standard":
You give hypocrites a bad name.
Yup.
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Good ol' American partisanship. One side is always terrible. Blah blah. But your still cool Attila Girl!
Look, I bought Obama's speech. Doesn't mean I'm voting for him (I'm a black independent voter who's always voted third party to protest the Big 2). I bought it because it was one of the most rational speeches on racism I've seen. And he acknowledge white resentment very, very well. The speech stands on it's on and puts the man, Senator Obama, on a different level regarding racial dialog. Regardless if he wins or not (he won't get the nomination IMHO).
Posted by: T-Steel at March 19, 2008 05:41 AM (YvBPe)
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But what was needed wasn't a discussion of racism—or, for crying out loud, white "resentment"; what was needed was a discussion of why he's been going to that hateful church for all these years and subjecting his girls to "information" that was inflammatory and factually wrong.
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 19, 2008 08:42 AM (Hgnbj)
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Is it an apples/oranges thing to compare Wright's rhetoric with statements by people like Falwell, Hagee, Robertson and others who blame America for 9/11, Katrina and other disasters?
See, the problem is I may not be nodding my head in agreement when they say New Orleans was flooded or the World Trade towers were hit because of the immorality of this country, but I do understand where they're coming from. And even if I disagree, I may not be wishing to loudly condemn and distance myself from them (any more than I already have distanced myself from the social conservatives).
I keep reading and reading on this whole imbroglio, and I can't seem to get myself exercised about it to the degree that I am exercised about Obama's essentially communist/socialist underpinnings. To me, all this yak about race is serving to obscure the fact that this country could be taking a gut-wrenching lurch leftward if he were to be elected.
Posted by: Desert Cat at March 19, 2008 01:10 PM (B2X7i)
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I, too, regret that this election is starting to boil down to race, and that the most salient feature of a candidate is starting to be the color of his/her skin.
And it is
not apples and oranges. I know where you're coming from inasmuch as you and are both libertarians with SoCon streaks (yours, of course, a good deal larger than mine . . .). But I
have condemned the Falwell and Robertson statements. At the same time I
defend expressions of faith in the "public square," I resist vigorously any sort of "one size fits all" spiritual solution for this country. That isn't what we're about.
I know you're saying that the Wright thing was just rhetorical excess, but I see it differently: I think the
factual wrongness of his statements, combined with the degree of hate they were likely to stir up, made them very dangerous. When you factor in that gullible black people sometimes fall for that stuff (AIDS as an agent of white genocide, etc.), I just cannot stomach that in a Presidential candidate.
I think the Obama is, sub rosa, trying to take the position that "there is no such thing as black racism." And I reject that position, just like I reject the man-hating elements of feminism, lesbian separatism, and all the rest of it.
Divisiveness serves no one.
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 19, 2008 03:39 PM (Hgnbj)
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I think gays at least, might be disinclined to agree that Wright's rhetoric is more dangerous than some of the rhetoric of the religious right. I mean you have to admit that some of us Bible-thumping redneck hicks might actually
fall for the notion that faggots are an abomination before the Lord.
Or something.
Posted by: Desert Cat at March 19, 2008 04:47 PM (B2X7i)
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You can't go to a church for twenty some years and turn around and condemn it. We don't have a choice about the religion we are given, just like we do not have a choice about our racist heritage or our name or the color of our skin (except Mr. Jackson). Obama did the right thing, he put the "wright" in its place. I mean I disagree with most of what my religion says. I even resent how others who are non-believers misinterpret my religion. Getting back to the point, this will cost Obama dearly, but in the long run that is Good for America, to put down a person and make them guilty by association is precisely what we want to see in this countries politics. That will make him a political martyr, and that in a Christian land is always a good thing.
Posted by: azmat Hussain at March 19, 2008 07:25 PM (+fapf)
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DC--You might want to talk to Gay Patriot West about how accepting lefties are vs. Christians . . . contra Andrew Sullivan, most centrist/war-supporting gays get much more love from the right vs. the left.
Azmat--He may not have chosen Christianity, though according to the doctrine I follow one must do precisely that. He did, however, choose the particular local church he joined, and pastoral leadership had to feed into that decision.
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 19, 2008 07:30 PM (Hgnbj)
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Well partly I'm talking perception. Obviously the gays on the right side of politics have figured out somewhere along the line that most of us are not actually itching for a lynching. And I'm not really trying to draw an equivalence here, just noting that some of the huffing on our side looks a little over the top if we take a moment to consider how some of our stuff might look to the left.
Posted by: Desert Cat at March 19, 2008 08:29 PM (DIr0W)
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BTW there's something wrong with the comments link on your top two posts. It gives me a 404 error when I click.
It is probably for the best. Darrell and I would doubtless be at each other's throats within the span of a couple comments, given the subject matter.
Posted by: Desert Cat at March 19, 2008 08:31 PM (DIr0W)
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A crack is a crack. No way to "prove" its cause. "It's natural settling," I would say. "For Nature, it's a good thing. . . Nature always settles." Of course I would gently clean out the crack and fill it with a specialty concrete crack filler (usually sold in a half-gallon size milk carton container. It adheres well, is super-fine in texture, and can be feather-edged and still remain crack-free. Try Sears. Paint afterwards. Then you won't have to explain.
Posted by: Darrell at March 19, 2008 09:04 PM (y+l1q)
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Do I know how to lay down bait for you guys, or what?
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 20, 2008 08:40 AM (Hgnbj)
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We're like helpless monkeys caught in your spell. Or carp, to go with your metaphor.
I explain cracks in concrete walls by saying that I got mad once and punched it. "You wouldn't want to see me mad. So are you guys buying or what?"
Posted by: Darrell at March 20, 2008 10:27 AM (wKw5e)
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Throwing Grandma Under the Bus.
So, Barack Obama cannot disassociate himself from his racist pastor, but has no trouble insulting his
still-living grandmother. Nice.
I mean, I do have one racist grandparent, but (1) he didn't raise me; (2) he was as mean to me as he was to everyone else; (3) he isn't alive anymore, and (4) I don't talk about him that much. ("Chilipods, chilipods, chilipods!"; "Grandpa, do they speak a lot of Spanish where you are now?" That would tell me what I'd like to know.)
But: Obama's grandmother is afraid of black men who pass her on the street? Hell: everyone is afraid of black men who pass them on the street. I got mugged twice trying to pretend I wasn't afraid of black men passing me on the street. Jesse freakin' Jackson has admitted that he's afraid of black men passing him on the street. That's racism? I thought it was the survival instinct. Some people call it "street smarts," which means that there's a whole different set of rules for vetting people you might pass on a sidewalk, versus those you meet in the grocery store, or a bar, or a friend's living room.
This guy's sleaze factor is kind of rising, here. I'd almost prefer a straight shooter, like Senator Clinton. After all, there are things she just won't do for the sake of gaining power. Not many, but they do exist.
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How did he "throw is grandma under the bus"? He lit up Rev. Wright, not his grandma. He explained how he can't disown two important people in his life because of what they say and said. If that's throwing under the bus, then all of us are habitual "under the bus throwers".
And as a 6' 4" black man who used to be an offensive lineman in college, I purposely smile (even when not in the mood) when I pass white women on the street because I can't stand being feared. Even when I'm with my wife and kids I do it. That's a DAMN SHAME but oh well. If that's what I have to do to keep improving race relations, so be it.
Posted by: T-Steel at March 19, 2008 05:35 AM (YvBPe)
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T-Steel, you're missing the whole point of Ms. Attila's third paragraph. Obama made an equivalence between Wright's G-D America, U.S. of KKK A, America deserved 9/11, and general hate-whitey rhetoric, and Grandma's understandable fear of young black men on the street.
Understandable? Yes, obviously: YOU understand it.
But the two are NOT the same. Grandma is not the other side of the Jeremiah Wright coin: that would be the love child of David Duke and Cindy Sheehan. And Obama, with his false equivalence, is making Grandma out to be just that -- the flip side of the abominable Jeremiah Wright.
Grandma doesn't deserve that treatment. THAT's why 68 thousand google hits agree that Obama "threw grandma under the bus"
Posted by: bob at March 19, 2008 06:58 AM (E+f5X)
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Yeah... 68,000 google hits speak volumes. OK...
I'm done with this. I've said too much (I'm a co-blogger at The Moderate Voice) already. I still don't see the Grandma "under the bus throw" but it's ok. Senator Obama isn't getting the nomination anyways.
Regardless, I still feel it's a landmark speech on race in America and it stands by itself.
Posted by: T-Steel at March 19, 2008 07:32 AM (YvBPe)
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I'm afraid of most young men/teenagers passing me on the street when they are dressed "thuggishly" and walk with a swager. I generally do not fear any young man who is well dressed and walking normally. My fear of thuggish looking black men is therefore, NOT racist.
Posted by: Lily at March 19, 2008 07:48 AM (eyBZq)
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Nice, T-Steel. Ignore the entire argument, and focus on the throwaway line at the end.
Landmark speech my *ss. KJL at The Corner accurately summarized that speech: "Damn straight, Rev. Wright is angry. That's how I wound up at his church. That's why I stay there. I'm mad too, I just control it better. Now let's get electing me president so we can all feel good."
Posted by: bob at March 19, 2008 08:01 AM (E+f5X)
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Let's all cool down, here. And let me clarify: I don't let ANYONE get near me on a sidewalk--white or black, male or female--unless it's good and light outside, and there are people around. And they're carrying a baby. And groceries. (The third time I was mugged, it was by a light-skinned woman--a junkie, I presume. I think she was Latina, but I had other things on my mind--like the sharpened screwdriver in her hand.)
And a smile helps a LOT. If you're with your family, that does, too. But I'm tiny, and I do what I have to do--just like Obama's grandmother.
Quite frankly, a person loses more points on the getting-near-me-on-the-sidewalk thing by being male than they do by being black. (After all, most serial killers are white.) But being black doesn't gain you any--particularly with black people; most African-American crime is black-on-black rather than black-on-white.
I have no problem with studying Obama's speech as a study in race relations in this century. What I have a problem with is the idea that we're supposed to give him a pass on supporting Rev. Wright's hate--when we wouldn't do so for
any other politician who supported bigotry.
I mean, what if Ron Paul could explain hanging out with anti-black people and anti-Jewish people because someone in his family had been wronged by a black or a Jew? What if he'd been cheated by a Jewish in-law? Would you give him a pass on anti-Semitism then? I wouldn't.
Thanks for coming by, T-Steel. I really appreciate your willingness to engage in an open exchange, here. I hope you'll be back.
(Oh, wait. That didn't cool things down much, did it? I think I meant that everyone
else should cool down, so I could spout off.)
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 19, 2008 09:00 AM (Hgnbj)
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Please note Obama's Grandmother had a problem with ONE agressive panhandler at the bus stop who was black ... not with the odd black man passing her on the street ...
Posted by: Jeff at March 19, 2008 09:36 AM (zQ0HK)
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"What I have a problem with is the idea that we're supposed to give him a pass on supporting Rev. Wright's hate--when we wouldn't do so for any other politician who supported bigotry."
How does Obama support Rev. Wright's hate? He 's said over and over again over the past 5 days he doesn't support it, that he in fact vehemently disagrees with it. You're not supposed to give him a pass for supporting it, because - and this is the important part here for you slow thinkers - he isn't supporting it.
See how that works? I just solved your problem.
Posted by: Levi at March 19, 2008 12:13 PM (NpISY)
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He was a member of his church, by choice, for 20 years. He supported the man by his presence in the pew, and by donating money.
He subjected his daughters to the modern-day equivalent of a Nazi rally. He cannot say, retroactively, that he "doesn't support it" because he is now willing to publicly disagree with it. No.
There is a distinction between maintaining cordial relations with someone who has bigoted views because you may be able, someday, to carry a "beneficial" message to that person--and being a member of their church for two decades and giving them money.
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 19, 2008 03:45 PM (Hgnbj)
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This is Obama's big unforgivable sin then, is it? Sitting in the audience of somebody that said something that you thought was offensive, and think that everyone should find offensive. But we're not all you. And Obama's no worse for the wear, it's not like 20 years of Reverend Wright turns you into some sort of Black Panther terrorist. Maybe he was a little bit tamer back in the day, who knows? You certainly don't, and it's an impossibly pointless question anyways. I mean since when did "Well, has there pastor ever said anything crazy?" become a necessary question for our Presidential candidates?
This whole manufactured controversy doesn't say a single meaningful thing about Obama. It says a whole lot about the conservative movement, and how there's still lots of insincerity and racism therein, but not so much about Obama.
You know Barack is 50% white, don't you? And I know you people need this controversy as much as you've ever needed anything, but really, 'modern-day equivalent of a Nazi rally'?
That's a bit much.
Posted by: Levi at March 19, 2008 06:29 PM (NpISY)
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Levi:
1) Do we all--"conservatives," however you define that--look the same to you? That's what it sounds like.
2) Politicians lose their careers all the time for being associated with bigots, or appearing "soft" on bigotry. So do entertainers and sports figures. In this country we're way into this "all men [humans] are created equal" thing.
And I'm not sure this debate has anything to do with "conservatism." First of all, there are no conservative candidates running. If one concedes that John McCain is the closest thing to a conservative out there (and it's debatable), then to want Obama knocked out of the race I'd also have to assume that Hillary is the weaker of the two candidates (also debatable).
What I do
not want to see is a situation in which "black people" (however one defines "black") are allowed to support bigotry when those of other ethnicities are not. The only thing worse would be if we were all encouraged to develop our own bigotries, and became even more Balkanized in the process.
3) I don't like racism, and I don't think black racism is any better than white racism. It might even be worse, inasmuch as it destroys more lives by increasing feelings of hopelessness and "victimhood" in the black community. Black supremacy is certainly more in danger of becoming a potent political force than white supremacy will ever be.
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 19, 2008 07:39 PM (Hgnbj)
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The time travelers sent me an email--
From the NYT Bestseller "Who The Hell Gives Their Kid A Name That Starts With A "B" When Their Last Name Starts With An "O" ???" (Why not go all the way and make it
a "J" ???)
Reminiscing on my first visit to Trinity United Church of Christ . . .
"It was like I found a home--for the first time in my life. Remember I had to put up with those Hawaiian punks smoking dope at the Polynesian Cultural Center throwing bricks at those
bus-loads of tourists calling me a "Haole" when I flash them the "hang-loose" sign. "But I was born here," I said. "Don't make no difference, Bro if you ain't got the blood," one of the
less-sensitive, ill informed punks said. What is it with that f'ing blood stuff? One drop makes you an outsider. None keeps you from being an insider? And how come everyone isn't mixed with everyone else? Who goes to Baskin-Robbins and only orders the vanilla every fucking time? Or chocolate, even! C'mon! Mix it up, people! You like ice cream? Get them all, all the time! Shit! What's so hard? After listening to Rev. Wright blasting America and everything it holds dear for nearly two hours, without ever bringing up any of that Christ-stuff that I could never get into sitting there pretending to pray while a peeked through my fingers and saw that dried-up Nun trying to scare a bunch of brown-skinned children senseless and noticing that not a single Angel was descending to slap me upside my head for what I was doing. Finally I knew what I had always known but never spoke aloud--GOD WAS A COMMUNIST JUST LIKE ME!!!! This was PERFECT! I knew that I would be President of the United States from the time that I was 5, promising everyone that when I became President I would give them all a MILLION DOLLARS each and having to listen to those heartless Republican bastards tell me that if everyone was rich nobody would be rich because a hamburger would cost $1000 or some such shit, "If you could even get someone to make you one" they mock with that stupid grin that was supposed to tell me that they knew what they were talking about. Shit! Now I didn't have to pretend that I was a Christian to get elected, but the kind that really didn't go to Church but reflected on it in private--which I knew that nobody would buy. Now I had a Church! One that would give me "cred" (street talk for 'Gravitas') in the Hood as I launched my political career! The rest was just a bonus! Being all-white is immoral. YES! Being all-white and rich is immoral" Double yes!
Take that Grandma! Take that Grandpa! Take that Ma! Tell me to take out the trash and clean my room? Ha! YOU"RE GONNA BURN! Ha! Now I knew I could start that long journey that would end at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW. I had to get my platform ready. I am going to give everyone a million dollars. And hope!
Posted by: Darrell at March 19, 2008 08:48 PM (y+l1q)
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1. Uh huh. Bush voters, basically.
2. How is Barack saying it's okay to support bigotry? Is he saying that? Does he support bigotry? Has Obama actually done anything but disagree with Wright?
I honestly don't understand how you can be mad at someone for listening to what someone else said. You realize that when you strip it down, that's what has you all so hysterical? He listened to a guy for 20 years. Big deal? Why do we care? You can't make any sort of honest judgment about Barack Obama through his pastor, they're DIFFERENT PEOPLE. They obviously have different opinions, Obama has made it redundantly clear that they do, what else is there to say? That Republicans are unsatisfied? Of course you are. If you've hung with Bush through the war and New Orleans and the economy then you're obviously just never going to let go. That means throwing tantrums about what Obama's friends say.
3. Yes, racism is bad. Obama agrees with you, so what's the problem?
Oh yeah.
"He listened to a guy!"
Posted by: Levi at March 19, 2008 11:45 PM (NpISY)
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The problem in a nutshell, Levi, it that it apparently was a one-way "dialogue." He didn't speak up to the man. That's my beef.
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 20, 2008 08:43 AM (Hgnbj)
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The problem in a nutshell, is that your use of the word 'apparently' denotes that you're just rampantly speculating and assuming the worst based on what amounts to a few seconds of sound bites, like everybody else with regards to this story.
Maybe they talked about race all the time? How could they not have? They're black politicians, they spent lots of time together and worked on lots of different stuff. How do you know it was a 'one-way dialogue' behind closed doors? What, do you need YouTube to post video of Barack springing up in the middle of church to interrupt and counter Rev. Wright? Until then, you'll just assume the absolute worst, huh? That Wright was forcing all this B.S. down Obama's throat and Obama just took it?
You have to realize you're letting your imagination run with this, at this point. Do you?
Posted by: Levi at March 20, 2008 10:45 AM (NpISY)
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Twenty plus years!
What part of that don't you understand? I haven't met a preacher/minister/priest who doesn't save their whole collection of sermons for future reference. How about publishing your 30-year collection Rev. Wright? That will go a long way towards ending the talk of imagination/speculation/cherry-picking, wouldn't it? I would be interested in hearing/reading the sermons that were delivered during the Carter/Clinton years. MSM?
Maybe hatred continues because we keep on exposing our kids to hatred? Without speaking up. Without voting with our feet by walking out and finding a new spiritual home.
Posted by: Darrell at March 20, 2008 11:26 AM (wKw5e)
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Wright and Obama are separate people, with separate experiences and separate opinions.
What don't YOU understand about that? It's not like the pastor/church-goer relationship is some special, sacred bond, wherein everything one person says reflects what the other person believes. Obama got some sort of religious fulfillment out of going to church and it's as unfair as it is unrealistic to assume that Wright spent 100% of his time on these few topics. We can't leave it at that?
Just because you want to leave when you hear something disagreeable doesn't mean we all want to. Some of us find the disagreeable bits more interesting, as a matter of fact.
Posted by: Levi at March 20, 2008 02:00 PM (NpISY)
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Show me what you wrote when G. W. Bush giving that 30 minute speech at Bob Jones U. during the 2000 race.
I do contend that Rev. Wright spent most of his time on Anti-Americanism, white hatred, class warfare, pro-Communist/Socialist agendas and the establishment of a permanent African-American victim class. Once in a while you got gems like "Jesus said you are your brother's keeper. You ARE your sister's keeper!" No. No, he didn't. That was Cain trying to cover his ass after killing his brother..."Am I my brother's keeper?" Unfortunately, he was talking to God at the time, and he was hit upside his head with a telephone directiory, if I recall(The mark of Cain).
I know the Christianity preached there is light. How else can Muslims be overt members? Without losing their heads, that is. A church even Marx and Lenin would love!
Posted by: Darrell at March 20, 2008 03:30 PM (nUr7n)
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Darrel, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Assuming the worst.
You 'contend' he spends most of his time on all that stuff? Based on what? Based on a total of 45 seconds of videotape that you've seen?
How is that fair?
Also, I don't know anything about the Bible or Christianity, so please don't start with a bunch of particularities. It's all a big, uninteresting, counter-productive fairy tale to me.
Posted by: Levi at March 20, 2008 03:46 PM (NpISY)
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Levi--
One of the more mainstream notions behind orthodox Christianity (note the small "o"--not discussing Eastern or Middle-Eastern Orthodox churches, here) is that we aren't really big on hate. Hating people is bad. Hating whole groups of people is also very bad. Jesus preached against both.
Why don't we turn it around? Where are the other members of Trinity out there who can tell us that Obama spent years denouncing the "God Damn America" rhetoric? Where are the church elders ready to go on record that Barack Obama threatened to withold financial support if Wright didn't stop condoning the white people = the devil formulation?
If Obama has been against these rhetorical excesses (that is, the hate speech) all along, surely that's well-established at Trinity, and other people can tell us how strong the objections have been . . . all along.
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 20, 2008 06:39 PM (Hgnbj)
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I live in Chicago. South Side, even. Morgan Park. I've been hearing about Trinity since the '80s, from co-workers who went there a few times. They walked away, saying that if they're going to go to Sunday services they might as well hear about a path that leads to Salvation. Let's see the whole book of sermons. And we'll check the ink, btw. Let's share the love!
Posted by: Darrell at March 20, 2008 07:59 PM (wG+LU)
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Atilla,
Why do we have to do all that though? Can we not safely assume that he has always been against this type of rhetoric? He did good work in Chicago for poor people of all races for years, doesn't that count for anything at all?
I mean, you make it sound like Wright was pouring this stuff into him every Sunday and then he'd spend all week plotting against Whitey. He did have a whole existence outside of that church for the last 20 years, and none of what he did supports the oh-so-baseless notion that he's some black supremacist Manchurian Candidate that hates his white grandma.
You can't judge 20 years of a man's life based on a cumulative minute and a half of video tape, you just can't. There was more to Obama's life than the church in Chicago; he practiced law, he gave lectures, he worked with the poor, do none of those things earn him any credit with you whatsoever? You just want to ignore a very civil-minded and accomplished career and just base all your estimations of the man on a few seconds of video?
Posted by: Levi at March 21, 2008 12:03 AM (NpISY)
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He worked with Tony Rezko doing legal work for him and others that Tony sent around, making sure they cleared all the hurdles and received all the variances for the various construction projects that Rezko was putting together, to assure that got maximum community development grant money to pad the bottom-line for the investors. Investors from Syria and the Middle East who apparently are fronts and middlemen for other, as of yet, unidentified deep-pocket individuals or governments. Rezko's trial just started here, nut apparently Tony can get $5 million- $10 million with a single short phone call. Something he just did after showing zero assets in pre-trial motions.
Obama joined Trinity because no one has ever stated their "religious beliefs" as secular humanist and made a serious run for high political office. It also gave him a leg-up in his early political career as being "one of us" among the voters in his geographic launching base. It also signaled that he was "OK" to the Left and liberals who has a track record of not donating to candidates with a traditional Christian background.
Living in Chicago, I know that Obama first got on the political radar by making at run at Bobby Rush's US Congressional seat in 2000. Bobby Rush is a Chicago legend, having co-founded the Illinois chapter of the Black Panthers, and working with Leftist radicals of the time. Rush pretty much used Obama's record in the IL Senate(1997) to convince voters that Obama didn't do anything for the African-American community up to that point, and Barack wasn't able to dissuade voters of that notion. When you look at articles telling you about BO's record, make sure they are contemporaneous to his service. Remember names can get added to Bills years later under current law. (Truthiness in politics). The buzz here was that not too many people knew much about Barack, even those who served with him in the IL Senate. Bobby Rush was able to fend off charges that he never paid a penny in alimony and child support with his various wives/children(and if fact they had been on welfare/public assistance from the beginning, spanning a 20+ year period) by simply telling voters that of course he took care of them--a few 'honeybees $100 bills)' may have appeared when needed or even if they weren't. Just nothing that would appear on record getting the nasty, cold-hearted "Man" to take away their benefits. I saw one of his supporters shout "He's one of us!" with that little revelation. Bobby's become 'mainstream' since his radical days, and I haven't read a word in the newspapers about any repercussions from this disclosure. How mainstream Democrat? In March 2006, Rush was co-author, along with conservative congressman Joe Barton, of the controversial Barton-Rush Bill. The bill would significantly benefit telecommunications companies like AT&T, Verizon and Qwest — a bill that generated some controversy after it was revealed that the charitable arm of major telephone company SBC (now AT&T) paid over $1 million to an Englewood charity Rush and his wife founded to create the Bobby L. Rush Community Technology Center.
What was Wright and other ministers of his ilk saying in the past in Chicago? We'll see. But the general theme with AIDS in the 80's, if I recall correctly, was that it was a plague being visited on the white devils for their evil acts and lifestyle. And money was being wasted on that instead of their concerns like Sickle-Cell anemia and hypertension. I remember AIDS being called the "Diet Plan" after those weight-loss caramels that eventually left the market due to poor sales with the association. Something Jesse Jackson helped put a stop to, with multiple group meetings of ministers, because it was causing a schism with the Left and money from the Left. And it was starting to affect the Black community in greater numbers.I'm pretty sure that's when Rev. Wright moved on to his current meme of US Gov't plot. And to set the record straight, ABC apparently just sent someone into the super-church to purchase a handful of DVDs that were for sale. Hours worth. Not the seconds that have been shown so far, or on You-Tube. And that doesn't mean that the rest of the DVD is inspirational. I saw a continuous 20-minutes of one that I would review by saying "the hits keep coming and coming" ABC and the MSM is being kind. Or cowardly. When people went to see Chevy Chase they expected him to fall down. When they went to see Steve Martin, they expected to see him with that arrow through the head. When they went to see Rev. Wright, they expected what they expected. And he never disappointed. You can't when you have 10,000 seats to fill.
Posted by: Darrell at March 21, 2008 01:33 PM (+Vuy2)
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I guess it's true the little ones always suffer most. The little one in this case being subject/verb agreement, et. al., when you're typing in a little box and revising--all with Fluffy nipping at your heels. I leave it to readers to make the requisite corrections.
Posted by: Darrell at March 21, 2008 02:29 PM (+Vuy2)
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March 18, 2008
Newt Gingrich Wants To Know
. . . if Obama is such an
"agent of change," why he didn't have the courage to stand up to
his own pastor, and implies that the reality behind the Obama-Wright relationship is more like: Obama never really minded the hate-talk and the wild untruths until he got caught—which Gingrich likens to being "a normal politician."
Ouch.
Gingrich suggests that this will "slow the momentum" of Obama's campaign. I think it'll bring the whole thing nearly to a halt.
Barack Obama had two decades in which to have a "Sistah Soljah" moment. He declined to do so, and would now like to retroactively pretend that the whole issue never came to light.
"There used to be white racists in the past, and there probably still are, and so it's okay to support black racists in the present. Oh, look over there!—it's a shiny object! Look at the sky! Look at the trees! Looking at the water rippling on the edge of the lake; isn't it pretty?
He's finished.
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Joyner on Obama's Speech
It's a multifacted
entry that's impossible to summarize. As usual, Joyner talks about the moral dimensions of the issue, the rhetorical devices Obama used, and the way this "Wright Stuff" stuff may affect public opinion/the horse races.
There is also, as one might expect from James, a nice little roundup at the end.
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Just Deal With This, Please.
Those of you who are still supporting Barack Obama (and I know you are lurking around), please go over to Ace's place and check out
this video.
You don't have to read the post itself (sorry, Ace), and you probably shouldn't read the comments there.
But just deal with it, please. I truly want to see how you're wrapping your heads around this.
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Baldilocks on Shelby Steele's Concept of "Racial Masks,"
and, of course, how they apply to
Barack Obama.
I asked her about my rather confused white-girl thoughts here. So it's nice to see the concept expanded upon. I think it's also a nice thought process for young minorities to go through (or, ahem, anyone who might be tempted to slide into the culture of victimhood): how do you create a self that neither varnishes the past, nor wallows in it? Flight, or fight? Is there a middle way?
Maybe we all need to learn from Steele's "maskless black person." At least, when we wear our various masks, we ought to try to be aware of it.
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More on Obama's "Wright Stuff":
Karl at
Protein Wisdom:
white Americans, who are fully aware that historically black church services may include dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting — just as some predominantly white churches do. What distinguished Trinity was the hateful and paranoid comments of the Rev. Wright and the apparently joyful reaction of his congregation to them. Indeed, Tom Maguire notes that after the speech, MSNBC presented black ministers who insisted that Wright is way out of the mainstream, and that most black churches preach a more traditional Christian message of love. That Obama insists on claiming Wright is like part of his family whom he cannot disown, when he self-evidently chose the association — and that he compares Wright to “the entire black community” tells Obama’s audience much more about Obama than about Wright or the black community.
Karl has also, in the post linked above, researched Liberation Theology in general, and Black Liberation Theology in particular, comparing it to other strains within Christianity and discussing Rev. Wright's teachings thereon.
I'd read it now if it weren't time for my "daily stint" of housecleaning/de-cluttering. So it'll have to wait tonight—but it's fairly thorough (in an introductory sort of way, natch), and it should make juicy reading tonight with my glass of red wine.
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Well, It's Certainly Prettier than Anything Ron Paul Might Have Come Up With.
Or David Duke, for that matter. Barack Obama, on
why it's okay to hang out with racists.
Uh-huh. If people buy this, I'm going to be pretty annoyed.
UPDATE: Baldilocks has a nice roundup, including a link to the smartest man alive ("my other political father," she calls him), Professor Thomas Sowell, writing in National Review Online:
Neither Barack Obama nor his media spinmeisters can put this story behind him with some facile election-year rhetoric. If Senator Obama wants to run with the rabbits and hunt with the hounds, then at least let the rabbits and the hounds know that.
Racist.
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Thanks, Chica. Shelby Steele is my first political father. He "gave birth" to me; Dr. Sowell provides the education.
Posted by: baldilocks at March 18, 2008 11:40 AM (/2DrQ)
Posted by: baldilocks at March 18, 2008 11:40 AM (/2DrQ)
Posted by: Attila Girl at March 18, 2008 12:14 PM (Hgnbj)
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Sheby Steele on Barack Obama
in the
Wall Street Journal:
Bargaining is a mask that blacks can wear in the American mainstream, one that enables them to put whites at their ease. This mask diffuses the anxiety that goes along with being white in a multiracial society. Bargainers make the subliminal promise to whites not to shame them with America's history of racism, on the condition that they will not hold the bargainer's race against him. And whites love this bargain -- and feel affection for the bargainer -- because it gives them racial innocence in a society where whites live under constant threat of being stigmatized as racist. So the bargainer presents himself as an opportunity for whites to experience racial innocence.
This is how Mr. Obama has turned his blackness into his great political advantage, and also into a kind of personal charisma.
And:
And yet, in the end, Barack Obama's candidacy is not qualitatively different from Al Sharpton's or Jesse Jackson's. Like these more irascible of his forbearers, Mr. Obama's run at the presidency is based more on the manipulation of white guilt than on substance. Messrs. Sharpton and Jackson were "challengers," not bargainers. They intimidated whites and demanded, in the name of historical justice, that they be brought forward. Mr. Obama flatters whites, grants them racial innocence, and hopes to ascend on the back of their gratitude. Two sides of the same coin.
I'm not sure that any black person who is working toward a color-blind society is a "bargainer," or that any black person who discusses race is a "challenger." I almost wonder whether Steele is boxing black behavior in unnecessarily this way. I don't know.
But bargainers have an Achilles heel. They succeed as conduits of white innocence only as long as they are largely invisible as complex human beings. They hope to become icons that can be identified with rather than seen, and their individual complexity gets in the way of this. So bargainers are always laboring to stay invisible. (We don't know the real politics or convictions of Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan or Oprah Winfrey, bargainers all.) Mr. Obama has said of himself, "I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views . . ." And so, human visibility is Mr. Obama's Achilles heel. If we see the real man, his contradictions and bents of character, he will be ruined as an icon, as a "blank screen."
Thus, nothing could be more dangerous to Mr. Obama's political aspirations than the revelation that he, the son of a white woman, sat Sunday after Sunday -- for 20 years -- in an Afrocentric, black nationalist church in which his own mother, not to mention other whites, could never feel comfortable. His pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is a challenger who goes far past Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in his anti-American outrage ("God damn America").
How does one "transcend" race in this church? The fact is that Barack Obama has fellow-traveled with a hate-filled, anti-American black nationalism all his adult life, failing to stand and challenge an ideology that would have no place for his own mother. And what portent of presidential judgment is it to have exposed his two daughters for their entire lives to what is, at the very least, a subtext of anti-white vitriol?
What could he have been thinking? Of course he wasn't thinking. He was driven by insecurity, by a need to "be black" despite his biracial background.
Which is the crux of it. Read the whole thing.
I do not know how the Democrats intend to engineer a win for Clinton, but if they are smart they are working hard to change the rules. Because they cannot win with Obama.
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In the WSJ piece, he doesn't talk about a third type--the one with no mask. See NRO TV's interview with him (I linked to it yesterday).
Bill Cosby's latest incarnation is an example of the maskless black person, i.e. the one who will tell everyone the ugly truth. (His pre 21st century persona was an example of a bargainer.)
Posted by: baldilocks at March 18, 2008 03:03 PM (/2DrQ)
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March 17, 2008
Your Message Here
So, Barack Obama is a beautiful blank canvas.
Which would make him a lot like that other brilliant politician of our age—what was his name? Ah, yes: Bill Clinton.
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Does this hat make me
look like a trailer-trash
cousin of the Gabor
sisters? If not, why not?
No.
1) It's not a baseball cap with a Skoal logo.
2) They don't sell those at Walmart, ergo they do not exist for white trash.
3) You look pretty hawt (for an aging gal ;> ).
Posted by: Desert Cat at March 17, 2008 07:55 AM (B2X7i)
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March 16, 2008
Aw, Come On.
The guy wears
earplugs to church. Or he's got his iPod going during long sermons. If he ever "nodded," it was just because there was a good beat in the music. Nice baseline; good drumming. That kind of thing.
Just because someone is sitting in a pew, doesn't mean he or she is actually listening to what is being said from the pulpit.
Besides: Racists!
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Or he was just drifting off to sleep during the sermons...
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at March 16, 2008 11:24 AM (1hM1d)
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Have you ever tried to find a pro-American
Socialist Church? The gasoline savings alone make his choice purely logical. Think globally, worship locally. Sustainable hatred.
Posted by: Darrell at March 16, 2008 01:47 PM (aQZYv)
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InstaPunk on WhiteGate
I don't know whether the Democratic Party can or will
nominate someone for whom their members will actually vote.
I just don't think Barack Obama is that person, though Senator Clinton still could be.
Whom does this benefit? Well, it starts with a "John," and it ends with a "McCain."
Via InstaPUNDIT.
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