April 30, 2005
Oh, Shit.
Jeff G and Lair are
at it again.
I'm staying home, scared to death that one of them will get mad at me.
I've been sitting at my desk for two hours straight, hair standing on end, eyebrows raised and eyes wide open.
I may still be here tomorrow morning—in the same position. Terrified someone will think I took sides, and I'll end up in his laser-like sights.
The saving grace? Laurence is unlikely to respond to a post that refers to him as "Larry."
And me?—I kind of hope that when Attila the Hub gets home from the party he's attending tonight he'll coax me gently off to bed.
UPDATE: Jeff insists that the "Sudden Fiction" about a guy named Larry who lives in Houston, works in a cubicle and likes food wasn't about Laurence. So we have to take him at his word, because not doing so amounts to a sort of mind-reading. I'm not a mind-reader, and I therefore retract my assertion that the post was about Laurence.
After all, if it were about Laurence, there would have been cats.
Of course, it's too late now.
If Jeff and Lair were women this would be regarded as a "cat fight," but instead we'll have to call it a "brilliant, verbal domestically oriented warbloggers fight" or something like that.
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1
When elephants dance, ants die.
Posted by: Laurence Simon at May 01, 2005 05:33 AM (thpkl)
2
I'm only an ant if I cop to being an ant. And if I do, it doesn't count because I didn't mean it.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 01, 2005 09:12 AM (U8eQl)
3
Uh, that post wasn't about Laurence Simon. It was just a piece of fiction about a magical burrito Indian.
Posted by: Jeff G at May 01, 2005 12:02 PM (a5fee)
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 01, 2005 01:36 PM (U8eQl)
5
"When elephants dance, ants die."
Probably suffocated in elephant poo. Helluva way to go.
Posted by: gail at May 01, 2005 01:40 PM (47cun)
6
My story had nothing to do with Laurence's post. Period. In fact, I was finishing it up when I received his first trackback. Unless you think I read Laurence's post at 12:47, then wrote mine in response and got it posted by 12:53.
Posted by: Jeff G at May 01, 2005 03:43 PM (a5fee)
7
You have awfully thin skin, Jeff. You use... what? SPF 100?
Posted by: Laurence Simon at May 01, 2005 04:12 PM (thpkl)
8
When I don't have thin skin, I'm acting too above it all. Hard to reconcile, I realize, but hey -- if Bush can be an evil genius and a barely literate Christ-bothering bumpkin', I suppose I can be called on to play two roles at once.
It might make you feel better to think I have thin skin, but what I really have is a curiosity about why people like you spend so much time worrying about what others are doing and so little time on the important things, like posting more cat pictures and telling us more about what you baked on any given day.
But hey, the sun block joke? Now THAT's good stuff.
Posted by: Jeff G at May 01, 2005 04:26 PM (a5fee)
9
Re: your update.
I had no idea Laurence worked in a cubicle. And the protagonist Larry in my story didn't like food so much as he did not knowing what he was going to get from day to day.
In short, he hated the predictable, mindless, regurgitated memes of your standard mediocre burrito.
But that part was just a coincidence.
Posted by: Jeff G at May 01, 2005 09:13 PM (a5fee)
10
How dare you call me a brilliant, verbal domestically-oriented warblogger!
Posted by: Laurence Simon at May 02, 2005 11:09 AM (uBCxH)
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 02, 2005 11:25 AM (U8eQl)
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April 29, 2005
This Blog is Really Full of Crap
This
entry at the newly resurrected Suburban Blight reminded me of a conversation I had with my mother about a year ago.
Me: By the way, I've always wanted to thank you for not being one of those mothers who apparently obsess about their children's shit.
Mom: You're welcome.
Me: I've heard some weird stuff about parents in the 60s and 70s who had very specific ideas about how often their kids should take a crap, and when. Eek.
Mom: It was even worse in the 30s and 40s—believe me. They used to give kids enemas if they didn't shit at the right intervals.
Me: How did you cope?
Mom: I learned to lie.
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It's Official
There is nothing worse than estrogen withdrawal. I'm ready to drive to south-central and see if I can score some happy hormones. In another eight days life will be good, but I'm in the middle of the two-week dearth.
The night before last I ate six Krispy Kreme doughnuts before bed. Okay: I ate three, and then an hour later I ate another three. So I've stopped buying them, until I start again.
Whaddya think: good time to make life-changing decisions? Or shall I wait a bit?
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1
I would suggest different donuts. KK. Yeck. And I live in the state that spawned them.
Posted by: William Teach at April 29, 2005 06:11 PM (HxpPK)
2
So if I eat a half-dozen Winchell's doughnuts in one sitting that'll be okay . . . ?
I actually prefer standard doughnut-shop doughnuts. They should be plain old-glazed ones, of course. Or glazed twists, if I just want to party it up.
Must. Resist. Doughnut. Fascination.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 01, 2005 12:00 AM (U8eQl)
3
Uuummmm, doughnuts.
Yes, standard ones are OK. Even Dunkin Dounts is ok. No KK. The difference being that KK's are 99.3% sugar based glaze around some sort of yeast based stuff, while a real doughnut is a yeast and flour based confection with some sort of topping.
Crap, now I'm hungry.
Posted by: William Teach at May 01, 2005 11:10 AM (HxpPK)
4
YUM!
I'm no KK fan either. Mostly the same reason as Mr. Teach, but also because in their old-fashioned cake doughnuts they never use nutmeg. That is sacrilege.
My mom goes for KK big time, especially when some little light goes on saying Warm Ones Ready To Eat! or something. I respect that. I just wish I liked the doughnut underneath the warmth better.
DD's not bad. Tim Horton's good. But back in Chicago, we had the best doughnuts, everywhere. Great doughnuts. People would have been ashamed to get caught selling or eating most of the crap that passes for doughnuts these days.
Cake donuts are valid too. I love both. Sometimes I bake loaf bread, sometimes I make biscuits. It's just yeast vs. quick breads; donuts ditto. Glazed yeast? #1. Or twist. Or glazed yeast cinnamon twists. Truly good jelly doughnuts. Plain cake, or chocolate covered or powdered.
Miss Attila's blog always makes me hungry.
Posted by: k at May 01, 2005 03:15 PM (6krEN)
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Is It Just Me, Or
. . . does Lair seem a bit
irritated by Sully?
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April 28, 2005
Michele
. . .
doesn't think The Wall (the album) quite lived up to its hype. I haven't heard it all the way through in over a decade, but there are a handful of tracks on it that are truly amazing.
It is worth noting, however, that when it was time for me to buy Floyd CDs, I started with Dark Side, and then I acquired Wish You Were Here. I'm now ready for The Wall again; I hope absence has made the heart grow even more fond.
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1
You have to get "Animals." Best Floyd album EVER!
I have burned through 3 cassettes and 2 cd'.
Posted by: William Teach at April 28, 2005 05:15 AM (HxpPK)
2
Heck I own the Wall on DVD, waht and odd flick. Also learned redheads will ruin you life....
Posted by: the Pirate at April 28, 2005 06:21 AM (Khg8i)
3
Animals is better than
The Wall. And
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (by Genesis) is a better story told as a double album.
See if you can find the DVD of the movie,
The Wall, probably not worth buying, but worth seeing once. And yes, it is an odd flick...
Posted by: Zendo Deb at April 28, 2005 09:38 AM (S417T)
4
I did see it, but it was in the 80s and my memories have faded a little. I'd see it one more time.
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 28, 2005 10:08 AM (U8eQl)
5
The Wall lived up and surpassed any hype...period.
Have you played Dark Side while watching Wizard of Oz? I thought it was just a bunch of exaggerated hype. Then I did it and it blew me away. Either one of the most amazing series of coincidences of all time or it was intentionally written to coincide with the film.
Posted by: Don at April 28, 2005 11:15 AM (FsGoB)
6
That is one of my life goals, yes.
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 28, 2005 01:14 PM (U8eQl)
7
I was too hip for Pink Floyd, whom I considered fat old rockers. And I couldn't take seriously a bunch of millionaires telling kids they didn't need to go to school
Posted by: jeff at April 28, 2005 02:25 PM (LRJb7)
8
I wrote my own Wall
post about a week into my blog. it is still one of my favorite albums - and posts
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at April 28, 2005 04:54 PM (U3CvV)
9
Done the Wizard of OZ thing, it was pretty interesting. Come to think of it, my parents took me to see them when I was 4, that really could explain alot.
Posted by: the Pirate at April 28, 2005 10:26 PM (Khg8i)
10
And now, my list of "Most Overhyped blogs" ...
Posted by: Laurence Simon at April 29, 2005 07:04 AM (uBCxH)
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 29, 2005 09:55 AM (U8eQl)
12
If y'all can find it, buy or rent Pink Floyd's Live at Pompeii. Incredible.
Posted by: William Teach at April 29, 2005 04:42 PM (HxpPK)
13
Live @ Pompeii - OK. I really like Seamus (my dog Seamus)
Most of the music is from Meddle.
If you are serious about old Floyd Albums, buy Uma Guma (is this out as a DVD?) it was 2 old single albums combined and sold as 1 double. Great stuff like
Set the Controls for The Heart of the Sun. This was truly acid rock.
Posted by: Zendo Deb at April 29, 2005 05:58 PM (S417T)
14
Got it. Someone pinched my "Works" album, gotta buy it on CD.
Best title "Several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave and grooving with a pict."
The rumours I read were that it was a tribute to Hendrix. No clue if that is true or not.
Posted by: William Teach at April 29, 2005 06:09 PM (HxpPK)
15
I've heard that "song." It was on a compilation tape someone made that I think I still have.
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 29, 2005 07:03 PM (U8eQl)
16
Yup, pretty much noise for, um, stoners and trippers to listen to. The end has the words, in a really deep Scottish Broughe, "and the wind cried Mary."
Posted by: William Teach at April 30, 2005 03:44 PM (HxpPK)
17
Yeah we used to get the new kid (what ever new kid that came up in the rotation) really ripped and then play "small furry animals...pict" for him at Vol. 11 on the stero.
The only thing funnier than that was doing juggling when your audience was tripping on windowpane.
It's a wonder I lived through that season of my life.
JD
Posted by: jd bell at May 01, 2005 06:31 PM (PiRll)
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April 27, 2005
Jeff Percifield
. . . marvels at the
success of Air America, and offers the network some suggestions to continue its momentum.
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Energy Bar
John Carey, writing in
Business Week, blasts Bush's energy proposals for being potentially popular. He includes this nugget of wisdom:
Want to increase supplies of oil and gas? Instead of drilling in the ANWR or adding a few LNG ports, Bush could open up areas like the Gulf coast of Florida or the Rocky Mountains, which has a 60-year supply of natural gas, to exploration and drilling. But that wouldn't be popular in Florida, where his brother Jeb is governor, or in some of the Western states that are strong Bush country.
To say that is to implicitly admit that the people of Colorado and Florida probably don't want this drilling to happen. Maybe they're right; maybe they aren't. But the interesting thing about drilling in ANWR is that Alaskans—for the most part—want it. It's being hung up by general misconceptions about what it would mean for wildlife, and by northeastern liberals who've never been to that part of Alaska and don't even know what the terrain looks like.
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1
re: "...Alaskans—for the most part—want it." Do you have any published data to support that? It would be damned handy to be able to use such evidence in an ongoing debate in which I find myself embroiled.
Posted by: david at April 28, 2005 08:16 AM (s5NT2)
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Asocial Security
Over at Power Line,
Hinderaker talks about a Democrat-led protest in the Capitol against social security reform:
Children would be better off saving than hoping to someday receive government checks. But the Social Security program makes it impossible for many millions of Americans to save, by sucking up the 15% of their incomes that otherwise could be available for saving. By making saving impossible, it relegates millions of Americans to retirement on the dole, at the whim of Congress. This doesn't apply to wealthy or prosperous Americans, who save through 401(k) programs and other vehicles, and essentially ignore the Social Security system, but Social Security destroys the potential for a secure, independent retirement for many millions of blue collar and middle-income Americans. The Democratic Party's cynical exploitation of these people is one of the scandals of the current political era.
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1
I have an IRA that was created after I had a 401 K through my old job. I'm not wealthy or prosperous (yet, I hope!) but one must put SOMETHING aside in a retirement fund and whenever possible, build on it. I haven't been able to add to it for the past two years but it's still making money for me and I will add to it when I'm able. It's not just for "rich people." Anyone can save a little tiny tiny bit, and when things get better, save a little bit more.
Posted by: Mena at May 01, 2005 06:59 PM (S1nDv)
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April 26, 2005
Annie Jacobsen
. . .
entertained several agents from the Department of Homeland Security a few days before she delivered her second son. The details were typical: she got a call beforehand on her cell phone (the number for which was unlisted), and all four agents were on the line. There's something to be said for these "Men in Black" flourishes, of course.
The upshot: Jacobsen was right to be concerned about the security protocol associated with her flight last summer, and it appears likely that the DHS feels it could well have been a probe of some sort, a la the infamous James Woods flight.
In fact, Malkin sees the main significance of the latest in Jacobsen's "Terror in the Skies" series as confirmation by Federal agents that Mohammed Atta was on the same flight as James Woods some weeks before 9/11. Woods has publicly stated that two other participants in the 9/11 attacks are people he positively ID'd as having been on the flight. That gives us an idea that at least three of the four guys Woods saw were 9/11 terrorists. Clearly, it was some kind of dry run. Woods is of course not saying much these days, as he could be required to testify in the Zacarias Moussaoui trial, but we can infer from his observation that the "teams" that worked the evil of 9/11 were not discrete "cells"—rather, part of a more deeply interconnected group.
Joe Gandelman, writing in Dean's World, discusses one of the main implications of Jacobsen's latest article:
It seems from her piece that there are two government attitudes on this. The security-types, law enforcement at Homeland Security who seemingly do suspect there was something happening on that plane versus the more diplomatic types who want to take the official Syrian explanation and move on or downplay it.
There is also tension between two different approaches to security: those who would like to do their jobs as discreetly as possible, telling the public only as much as it needs to know—so as not to "tip off" the terrorist planners—and those who would like to convince the media and public that they really aren't asleep at the switch.
I'd really prefer the former approach. However, in a post-9/11 world we cannot simply sit back and assume that the people we hired to protect us are doing their jobs properly without any sort of scrutiny whatsoever. Whatever ambivalence I've felt about Jacobsen's series has not had to do with any sort of suspicion that she's a "racist." That's just nonsense. It has simply been that I wish the work of keeping the nation safe could go on under the radar.
But we cannot trust that this will happen: not when agents of the FBI field offices were unable to get their concerns addressed until thousands of Americans were dead and the U.S. economy had taken a direct hit it has yet to recover from.
The penultimate article in Jacobsen's series discusses an incident on British Air in which someone was removed from a flight departing from London—at gunpoint. Yet there have been nearly no media accounts of this occurrence. Naturally, I'd like to think that the authorities in the UK are "handling" it, and that the media blackout is part of an attempt to enhance safety through discretion. This particular event is complicated by its international character, but the principle remains the same: neither Britons nor Americans are in a position to utterly trust those who are obligate to protect them. And that's scary.
In this country, our assurance that public officials do their job lies in monitoring their efforts. It's tragic that this is so, but for right now that's the way it is.
Previous entries on Jacobsen's work:
My discussion of the "is this significant?" debate, after the original "Terror in the Skies, Again" story broke.
And some other updates.
UPDATE: Joyner has more.
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Scott Kirwin
. . . discusses the fact that we've very nearly
cured the disease of "being a little boy."
Thank goodness.
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In Tech Central Station
. . . Sandy Szwarc writes an intriguing
summary of what we've all seen lately while scanning headlines: the health risks of obesity have been drastically overstated, and it isn't a health crisis after all. Whew.
Beyond that, though, she explains that in most cases being somewhat overweight can actually enhance human health. Up to a certain point, biomass is good. Certainly, the risks of being underweight are much greater than the risks of being overweight.
So eat up. But, you know: I'd still take a walk now and again. It never hurts to hedge your bets.
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April 25, 2005
James
thinks we should just
ditch the silly Food Guide Pyramid—even in its new
"programmable" form—and let people feed themselves. After all, we couldn't be doing a worse job, even with all this Federal "help."
Reminds me of Michele's Food Guide Pentagram, which is, um, slightly more appealing than the Feds' version. Oddly enough.
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April 24, 2005
The Fascination of What's Difficult
I was at
L.A. Times/UCLA Festival of Books yesterday (yes: Angelenos just call it "the book fair"). What a great time. It's always a little grueling, and we usually come home with those "day at the beach" headaches that tell us we have micro-mini cases of sunstroke. Yesterday, though, it was a little overcast, so we were able to stay a little later in the day without danger of our parched bones being found outside Royce Hall.
As usual I saw a few panels on crime writers, and was excited to sit in on one that featured both T. Jeff Parker and Roger L. Simon. (But where, Roger, was the fedora? You were wearing a baseball cap.)
Roger was blunt about his politics, and actually announced in a small lecture hall of about 300 people that he'd voted for G.W. Bush. He discussed 9/11 as a pivotal moment in his political evolution, and Tod Goldberg, as moderator, was able to joke about the fact that this made Simon a minority in that crowd: Goldberg struck just the right note, defusing the tension in a way that was respectful of both Simon and the left-leaning audience.
But the impressive acts of courage were undertaken by Hugh Hewitt. To a much-larger audience in a lecture hall that sat over a thousand, Hewitt discussed the media with a crowd of people that included Arianna Huffington. At first I was confused when Hewitt didn't garner as much applause as Arianna; later, it became clear that even a panel featuring Hugh hadn't attracted a centrist crowd. Not in this town, Baby.
The audience was completely outraged by a few observations of Hugh's, including a statement to the effect that the L.A. Times leans to the left. (I'm serious: it seems so self-evident that even my lefty friends cheerfully agree it is so, despite the Times featuring a few righty columns and one neocon cartoonist. Yet the boos Hugh was subjected to lasted over five seconds, and the two women on either side of me each glanced in my direction, as if to ask, "can you believe the amazing thing he just said?" Well, you know—I could.)
I kept a polite, chilly smile on my face. I didn't give these people any reason to think I agreed with them, but I also didn't clap at the end of Hugh's statement, and this was a failure. I think the handful of us in that room who support the war were truly scared and surprised by the sheer level of lefty adrenaline in that huge space, and just didn't know what would happen if we let those around us know how we felt.
Later, Hugh referred to Fox News as "center-right." More booing and hissing. The woman on my left (figuratively and literally) nearly bounced out of her seat once more. Again, I was chilly and unresponsive to those around me. But I failed to support Hugh as audibly as I would have liked.
I keep thinking about Malcolm Gladwell's amazing book, The Tipping Point. It was a great read, and I'm ready to buy it and hand it out on the street: what a fabulous set of observations about human nature. One of the fascinating discussions within it has to do with how we behave differently in groups than we do when we're alone. I was disappointed in my inability to stand up for what I believe in from the midst of a crowd of people who were upset about the war in Iraq.
This inner resistence we feel is the hardest thing in the world to counter, because no one wants to be the nail that sticks up and gets pounded back down. I'll have to try harder, though: because what matters is not who wins the debate. What matters is that we keep having it.
Next time, I'll clap for Hugh. I have to.
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1
Sorry I missed you. That reminds me...(see email).
Posted by: Juliette at April 24, 2005 10:37 PM (QwsZY)
2
But you're in a ghetto there, like the SF Book Fair. I know liberals who consider the NY Times
conservative.
Posted by: jeff at April 25, 2005 03:36 PM (1hWRk)
3
Yeah, I know. And they control the film industry, music, books, most other media, pop culture on the coasts, and academia.
Yet they're very angry that "no one represents their viewpoint."
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 25, 2005 05:06 PM (U8eQl)
4
Sounds like a good time nonetheless. I think though it is wise to pick our battles and getting the snot beaten out of you by some buck-toothed peace-lovin' hippy on meth sitting behind you may not have been the best one in which to go down in a blaze of glory, which you probably knew on some level. We must be strategic in our selection of glorious martyrdom :p
Posted by: m a r t i n @ b l o g b a t at April 26, 2005 10:35 AM (lSKgN)
5
the fact that you do stand out among the lefties is what leads them to believe that everyone is left, and that left is the usual "state of nature." then, they are not only surprised but find it difficult to accept either emotionally or logically when right ascends.
Posted by: josil at April 29, 2005 12:09 AM (kB+4k)
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April 22, 2005
I Refuse
. . . to write anything worth reading until someone links me.
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1
I thought you were already in my blogroll. Well you weren't even though you are in my RSS reader and I never miss a post. I just put you in my blogroll, so you have been linked. Now write. Or not.
Posted by: Scott B at April 22, 2005 10:44 PM (y6ZHS)
Posted by: John Hawkins at April 23, 2005 01:06 AM (DyiUn)
3
I would too, except I don't want to embarrass you! - I'm not properly up and running yet. Do good intentions count?
Posted by: k at April 23, 2005 07:31 AM (HoSBk)
4
I wish I could, but I can't figure out how to get links to appear on LiveJournal. If anyone knows, let me in on the secret.
When I get my own website up and running I'll make sure you're at the top.
DB
Posted by: DrainBamaged at April 23, 2005 09:56 AM (Pp32v)
5
DrainBamaged!!! ROTFLOL!!! You crack me up!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's not in total control of their blog as yet.
Maybe she had a particular link in mind that we need to suss out? Perhaps we should be thinking scavenger hunt around now?
But surely she's owed more than one! I mean, look at all the links she has up there on her own blog. That's too many for me, I can't even count that high!
Posted by: k at April 23, 2005 11:37 AM (6krEN)
6
They should know that they won't get a link back from you
Posted by: Don at April 24, 2005 01:54 AM (H3z07)
7
Whaddya call this?--
http://littlemissattila.mu.nu/archives/065841.php
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 24, 2005 08:48 PM (U8eQl)
8
You right near the top of my list. Because your name begins with an A.
Posted by: gail at April 26, 2005 11:43 AM (/G91Q)
9
I stand corrected. And, thanks for the front page link...finally!!!
Posted by: Don at April 26, 2005 02:20 PM (FsGoB)
10
I will be happy to blogroll you at my site.
Posted by: barry at May 03, 2005 01:59 AM (kKjaJ)
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Matzoh!
Jibjab has a new video going, about
the Tribe.
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April 21, 2005
Blogging Will Continue To Be Light
. . . for the next several days. I'm scrambling around trying to get some healthy revenue streams going (for, let's face it: blogging is unlikely to turn into one anytime soon) and this weekend is the UCLA/L.A. Times Festival of Books. In the past, I've always gone for only one day, but it looks like Attila the Hub and I will be there both days this year.
And I'm running three businesses other than this blog, so it's a bit hectic right now.
Just know that I dearly love you, O My Readers, and that I'll be back.
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1
Three businesses?!? That's too many! They're taking you away from us! Come back, come back! We dearly love you TOO.
We'll wait for you, O Miss Attila! We'll be here.
Posted by: k at April 22, 2005 04:44 AM (6krEN)
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April 19, 2005
American Catholicism?
Scott Kirwin
discusses the tension between Rome and American Catholics, and some of the commenters at Dean's World (where he posted) predicts that American Catholics will split with Rome within 50-100 years.
I don't see it, primarily because there is already an alternative to Roman Catholicism: it's called the Episcopal Church (or Anglo-Catholicism, if you like). A lot of the rituals are the same, yet it's more liberal on a lot of the issues that have served as a sticking point.
Also, when the world is unstable, there is a visceral human need for constancy, and that's what the Roman Catholic Church provides.
One can argue about Vatican II all day long (and my husband and I have), but the fact is, these reforms were very ill-timed. At a time of social unrest, it's critical that people feel their religious institutions are holding steady, and providing moral leadership. The 1960s were a bad time to make sweeping changes. As is the present day.
(I do not feel that this applies to the issue of married priests, because that is not a core doctrinal issue: the Roman Catholic Church is in full communion with Eastern Orthodox sects that include married priests. So the Church has already conceded the point: it simply hasn't yet done the practical thing.)
UPDATE: More from The Corner.
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In my I wasn't around then opinion, Vatican II has been made out to be more of a drastic change than it was, leading people to believe they could make drastic changes to Church Doctine in the areas of abortion, gay marrage and the such.
As far as the married priests, I would be inclinded to initally agree, but after many a yeears in Jesuit Education I can see the Church Doctrine behind it.
As far as the split, I doubt it. I mean you can compare it to Judaism, people still call themeslves Jews but hold almost none of the Jewish beliefs, kind of like many Catholics also do currently.
Which is one of the reasons I might like Pope Benedict XVI is because he has the "If you don't like it leave" menality, rather than the give in and change the Church to make people feel better mentality or to make a cultural relativism (check out Pope Benedict XVI homily from monday on this subject, good stuff its on Hugh Hewitt's site) based faith.
Posted by: the Pirate at April 19, 2005 10:29 PM (Khg8i)
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I'm not a Catholic, but the one thing I wanted to comment here was on the notion that times of sweeping societal changes are bad times for the church to change.
While you have a point about people wanting stability and constancy, I would suggest that times of sweeping societal change are the only times when the church will EVER change, because during periods of stability/stagnation, there is no pressure to change.
Whether or not the church needs to change is a seperate issue, I think.
Posted by: Christiana Ellis at April 20, 2005 06:39 AM (mdzp3)
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I'm just saying that any change should be done thoughtfully, rather than under pressure.
And right now, keeping up dialogue with the moderate Muslims is Job One.
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 20, 2005 07:45 AM (mwhMN)
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The ordination of women and a married clergy are doctrinal issues, not
dogmatic issues in Catholicism. I'll post about this distinction later today.
Posted by: Dave Schuler at April 20, 2005 09:04 AM (oziG1)
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Celibacy strikes me as a non-issue: it's not something imposed, it's a conscious sacrifice made by men of faith. It's like fidelity in a marriage: it has value because it's not easy & requires personal sacrifice
Posted by: jeff at April 20, 2005 11:07 AM (gIE4S)
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The reason the issue is being revisited is that there is a shortage of young men willing to go into the priesthood now, and it's having an impact: churches are being closed down and so forth.
The theory is that allowing priests to marry would help in recruitment.
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 20, 2005 02:50 PM (mwhMN)
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Msr. (as he then was) Ratzinger has himself said he expects the number of the faithful to decline before a resurgence in Catholicism. He is planning on hewing to a hard line with respect to doctrine, and in the industrialized nations he therefore expects to lose adherents.
It seems that he is planning on allowing the population growth in Africa and Latin America to establish a new and more conservative Catholic mainstream outside of the first world. Indeed, there were many eminent Catholics who considered an African or Latin American Pope a possibility for this very reason.
Fighting fire with fire?
Posted by: douglas brown at April 20, 2005 03:24 PM (glWW3)
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From the way I have understood the married priest issue, (from many a theology course) is that with the view of the Church being married with Christ, making the Church into Christ's Bride. Then the priest being Christ's representative in the Church means the priest is married to the Church. Then having a priest who also maried to a woman would then be polygamist and polygamy isn't part of the Church Doctrine. It can also be applied in the abstract to female priests because of the connotation of the Church as a bride would make a female priest a homosexual marrgae and we all know where the Church comes down on that issue.
Posted by: the Pirate at April 20, 2005 03:37 PM (SksyN)
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My problem with that is, where exactly does that place the male parishioner? After all, he is also part of the church, and therefore the bride of Christ (and/or, symbolically, the priest). So isn't it homosexual marriage anyway?
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 20, 2005 06:13 PM (mwhMN)
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No, because the individual male parishoner is not acting
in Persona Christi as the priest is during Mass. Also, the Church as The Bride of Christ refers as to the Church as a whole- not to the individual members.
Posted by: Dennis_Mahon at April 21, 2005 07:26 PM (qPplC)
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Right. So the male parishioner isn't the entirety of the Bride. He's more like the shoe or the veil or the bouquet or the garter or the ankle or the arm.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to point out that this really doesn't make sense.
The effect is still men (as part of the Church) marrying men (as the priest, standing in for Christ).
The overall effect is of an entire group taking its metaphors so seriously that it ties itself in knots.
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 21, 2005 09:52 PM (mwhMN)
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Sorry that I've taken so long to respond:
Right. So the male parishioner isn't the entirety of the Bride. He's more like the shoe or the veil or the bouquet or the garter or the ankle or the arm.
A more apt metaphor would be to say that he was a single thread interwoven into an enormous tapestry.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to point out that this really doesn't make sense.
But it
does make sense, once you shift your perspective away from the worldview of radical autonomism: when a Catholic becomes part of the Bride of Christ, he (or she) allows his individuality to be subsumed into the whole, and in so doing becomes something greater than the mere individual.
If you are looking for a "perfect explanation", you're going to be severely disapointed; we are dealing with the supernatural here, and it does not mesh with natural understanding all that well.
The effect is still men (as part of the Church) marrying men (as the priest, standing in for Christ).
Except it isn't; we are not a mere collection of individuals, like a bag full of marbles- at that moment in the Mass, we are part of the whole. To insist on seeing a bag full of marbles is to miss the forest for the sake of the trees.
(I believe I've exceeded my metaphor quotient for the month.
)
The overall effect is of an entire group taking its metaphors so seriously that it ties itself in knots.
But who is it that has tied themselves into knots- those who accept the metaphor, or those who insist on interpreting through the lense of radical autonomism?
Posted by: Dennis_Mahon at April 26, 2005 03:14 PM (qPplC)
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So Now We Have the Enforcer.
It'll be interesting to see how
Benedict XVI behaves differently as Pope vs. as a cardinal. On the one hand, he has been very vocal in the past about seeing other Christian churches as "deficient." On the other hand, he was John Paul's right-hand man, and John Paul was aggressive about intra-Christian and interfaith dialogues. Given the state the world is in right now, it'll be interesting to see if he follows in John Paul's foosteps, or begins once more to isolate the Church.
In any event, he won't be Pope for a terribly long time, and it might be that the Church wants to "catch its breath" for a few years, while thinking about what course should be charted in the future.
He was, in a handful of ways, the "safe" choice.
I won't be upset if the Church continues its policies regarding married priests—though it's becoming impractical—or continues to hate on condoms. I will be upset if the dialogues don't continue with Protestants, Jews, and Muslims.
UPDATE: The BBC has a handful of quotations from leaders around the world reacting to the new Pope.
UPDATE 2: Outside the Beltway has a nice synthesis.
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Oops, typo in the first line. :-) Benedict XIV is Benedict XVI.
I was looking for an email addy as this isn't really comment fodder (so it should probably be deleted), but I couldn't find one. (I'm probably just blind)
Posted by: Masked Menace© at April 19, 2005 12:44 PM (ISV0b)
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That's okay; I can own up to my mistakes.
Every time I resolve never to blog when I'm in a hurry—or half asleep—some hot news item changes my mind, and I find out that evening that I've had some egregious mistake on my blog all day. Oh, well.
Posted by: Attila Girl at April 19, 2005 06:55 PM (mwhMN)
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April 17, 2005
Lebanon—Oh, Lebanon
Fascinating
piece on the hold Hezbollah has over the Lebanese people, and how the area it controls in Beirut is a classic cult-of-death Islamic neighborhood, not too far from where Christians and moderate Muslims are celebrating their new unity.
It's said that Hezbollah out-guns the Lebanese army, but this is one cancer that badly needs some chemotherapy; and maybe a little surgery.
A little Fallujah treatment might hit the spot, if it were done right.
Via Beautiful Atrocities.
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April 16, 2005
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