June 30, 2005
You've Got to Admit
. . . that Durbin
tried really hard to figure it all out.
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He was about a week behind the power curve, but still way ahead of those on the far left who kept defending the fallacious ideological ground he'd already abandoned with his apology.
Posted by: Ciggy at July 01, 2005 06:42 AM (Sy2Fl)
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Crude, Vulgar Birthday Blegging
My birthday is in nine days, so I think I'll let those of you who care to know about that.
My PayPal button is to the left, and my amazon wishlist is here.
In addition, the Attila Hub and I could use some more military history, like the DVD of Band of Brothers (we've worn out the VHS). We also don't have a copy of Ken Burns' series on the Civil War, or any of those great specials on the founding fathers (Ben Franklin being a special favorite).
We always watch a lot of war around this time of year, starting with The American Revolution and going forward.
K. is permitted to send me fresh mangoes, and nothing else.
Thank you for your patience, and, yes: I know I'm a spoiled brat.
UPDATE: Attila Hub informs me that we do have that cool War of 1812 special, so I've deleted it above. We also have that one on the French Revolution, which is fun (abeit a little gory). So we may be alright for a couple of months. But I will be Jonesing for Band of Brothers soon.
Someday I'll stop embarrassing him, but I don't think today is that day.
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Finally (drum roll)!
The long-awaited fourth installment of this week's Cotillion went up a little late, due to technical difficulties. Go ahead and catch it
here. Now you have links to carry you through the end of the week! Plus nice pix of pinup girls!
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June 29, 2005
Crisis of Faith
When I heard about Abu Ghraib, I thought it was a few isolated incidents. And I winked at Gitmo's abuses, because, well—detainees there are rumored to actually
gain weight before they leave.
But prison ships; I hadn't heard of these being used since the revolutionary War, when thousands of privateers were held in squalor in New York Harbor by the British. It's inhumane, and I just don't know if I can go on making excuses for this kind of thing.
This could be a turning point for me.
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Thank you.
Torture is never moral.
It produces usable information only rarely. Very rarely.
It's being used on people who have not been found guilty of any crime. Among those are people who are factually innocent of any wrongdoing, and who have no information to give us. A number of them were simply caught up in street "sweeps."
People who say things like, --It isn't really torture unless they die-- don't understand the first thing about torture.
Beating someone to death over several days has also been called "not torture." It's just beating to death. Not correct. Especially when you beat them as they hang suspended from the ceiling by their wrists.
All the above points have been verified by people in our own military.
This approach to prisoners is pervasive. It's pervasive because in our anguish over 9/11, we've decided it's ok. A survey I read during the Afghanistan war disclosed that 75% of Americans approved of torture.
I do not. I never have and I never will.
It is, very simply, wrong.
Extremely wrong.
Posted by: k at June 30, 2005 03:56 AM (ywZa8)
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Oh. It was a joke.
That's what I get for commenting before I finish my coffee.
Boy, is my face red.
Now everyone will know I'm a Humorless Anti-Torture Fool.
Ooops.
Posted by: k at June 30, 2005 04:15 AM (ywZa8)
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I was worried for a moment, my dear.
Being an Interrogator, um sorry, HUMAN INTELLIGENCE COLLECTOR for the Army, I concur with the first post by K, while laughing about the sarcasm in the link. Prison ships don't work - too much logistics train. The likely explanation for the rumor is the use of Navy vessels to transport prisoners to a secure location for airlift to Gitmo.
I have a few friends working at Gitmo - one is a retired CW3. I know him, I know his wife (another retired 97E); they might be screwing with their heads in a most strange and somewhat severe manner, but there is no way in hell there is torture. I think Chief would kill (literally) someone conducting themselves in that manner, just on principle.
Have a good morning, thanks for the eye-opener and then the laugh.
SGT Dave, Ft. Leavenworth, KS
Posted by: SGT Dave at June 30, 2005 05:21 AM (jPvjS)
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I washed out of interrogator training so part of me feels unqualified to pontificate about prisoner treatment other than to say, if it's good enough for an American caught stealing a TV set, it should be good enough for a jihadi caught trying to murder "infidels". And that goes the other way too: if something is considered too inhumane to do to Americans caught trying to rape little kids, then it's obviously beyond the pale for terrorists in captivity too. In other words, treat terrorists like any other criminal--blowing stuff up and murdering civilians IS illegal, right?
But that article you linked to, it VERY NEARLY produced a coffee-spit. It did physically make me spill some on my hand, and I'm still laughing at it. Nothing is ever so serious that you can't find the humor in ...something.
Posted by: Ciggy at June 30, 2005 06:55 AM (Ru8KL)
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Actually, K, you are correct: I'm okay with a little bit of sleep deprivation (Geneva Convention doesn't apply to most of these people, but the guideline there is what our own soldiers get under combat conditions: four hours a night).
But the most successful interrogators take time to listen to those they are questioning, and become, in some sense, their "friends." Then they'll want to talk.
Deep down, most people do.
There is an old rule discovered by the Israelis: if the authorities ever approve methods that go "over the line," these methods become more and more routine. If anyone ever pushes the envelope because he really feels that there is another 9/11 at stake and harsher treatment is justified, it needs to be that person's own individual responsibility. Anything else just sanctions torture: it looks more and more acceptable, and the standards get looser and looser--with no improvement in the quality of the information.
But wrapping someone in an Israeli flag is not torture. It's just an unpleasant experience for them.
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 30, 2005 08:53 AM (RGWNz)
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Thank you, Sgt. Dave. That's a comfort. Looking at the statistics, military folks often come up as opposing torture at a far higher rate than civilians do. That speaks well for military personnel, both as to their humanity and their real-life understanding of goals.
And I see Miss Attila is thinking of those goals, too. The point should be to get the info, right? not to satisfy one's emotional needs on the prisoners.
It isn't that I can't joke about any subject under the sun. Truly. I even make torture jokes of my own, although they tend to run along "The Addams Family" movie lines (Anjelica Huston: "Don't torture yourself, dear. That's my job."). I often scandalize people. I don't know why they sometimes insist on calling me a kind person; I think they're mistaking kindness for my fierce love of my friends.
As a standard cold-blooded vicious adolescent - you know how they are - I used to tell dead baby jokes.
I don't any more.
Reality intruded and the humor was lost.
I miss it.
I use morgue humor to help deal with tough subjects. It helps. I do differentiate between fictional characters and real human beings who suffer. But I saw how those dead baby jokes could hit too close to home for some people. So I shut up.
Now, some logic: Saying torture is immoral does not equal (DNE) saying --Terroristic acts are not illegal-- or, --They aren't vicious and inhumane-- etc. etc. Honestly! Beat me up for what I say, not for what I don't say and don't believe. I take pains not to put words in other people's mouths. I only ask the same courtesy back. I don't always get it. On this thread, so far so good. Really good. I notice that and I appreciate it. Little Miss Attila is rightly known to be a decently rational place to talk.
So, Ciggy: Finally! another person who recognizes that if it's not okay to do that to American pedophiles, it's not okay to do it to war prisoners. Even the ones that really and truly are terrorists. And, for recognizing that criminals are criminals. They may be more than that, too, but they're still criminals. Saying they aren't doesn't do us any good. Instead of emphasizing that they're also terrorists, it serves to whitewash their criminality. IMO.
Luis Posada is a terrorist, too. See, I hate terrorism with a deep and abiding passion. All of it. I hate it on principle. Murdering innocent civilians, some from foreign countries, because he hates Castro does not make Posada's terroristic and criminal acts OK. Terrorism is never OK; terrorism against a *bad ruler's country's airplanes and hotels* DNE *good terrorism.* No matter how much he proudly brags about it, and refuses to renounce violence.
*Their criminal rapes our children* DNE *it's okay to rape theirs.* Not only do two wrongs not make a right, it's critically unjust to make an innocent bystander pay for someone else's crime.
This brings to mind a recent infamous case in Pakistan, where a nice, churchy, sheltered, innocent girl was gang-raped, on order of the village elders, to punish her family (not her?!) because their 11-year-old boy was caught walking - walking - with a girl from a higher ranked tribe. Apparently the walk equaled adultery (instead of a social caste insult), which equaled punish the boy's whole family, by means of gang-raping his sister.
Vaginal rape is especially painful in that part of the world because the women have had their genitals surgically gouged out and the skin sewn back together. It's a tribal practice, but it's mistaken for Islam by both Muslims and others. In some tribes, the ideal-sized opening left after the sewing is the thickness of a matchstick. Often the first sex act requires a knife to make that opening large enough for sex.
Pakistan is our ally. Vicious crimes committed by allies DNE *crimes that are OK.*
Torture is wrong. Revenging criminal acts by making innocents pay is also wrong. It doesn't matter whether the Geneva Convention applies or not: it's still wrong to torture people. I'm not talking about wrapping them in the Israeli flag, either.
Whenever we're tempted to think otherwise, a telling reality check is to put your own loved one in that position. How would you feel if your innocent teenager were tortured or raped? How would you feel if your GUILTY teenager were tortured or raped? It just ain't right, folks. Not for either side.
These are values. Injustice is not a moral good.
Is there a time I'd do one of those wrongs, say to prevent another 9/11? Yes. In extremity only, and precisely under Miss Attila's guidelines: not sanctioned, and taking full personal responsibility for it.
I would never pretend it was RIGHT. I fully recognize I'd be committing a WRONG. I would do it because the wrong thing is, with extreme rarity, the best thing to do under extreme circumstances.
But choosing to do wrong for a good reason DNE *it's a right thing to do.*
Those extreme circumstances were NOT in play when Graner bragged to his kids about the "neat stuff" he enjoyed doing at Abu Ghraib. He tortured people for pleasure, and he said so. Dehumanizing people helps so much to make that possible. And, whether we want to believe it or not, there's lots more out there just like him. It's a quirk of human nature.
Then they hear 75% of Americans approve of torture, and get poor guidance from above, and are shot at and IED'd and RPG'd and angry about 9/11, and maybe pissed off about well-paid civilian contractors too. Maybe they've been promised they'd go home over and over, but had their tours extended instead. Put it all together, and torturing prisoners is a very predictable result.
OK. I'm done. I hope y'all don't mind if I lighten up. I've had enough of this grisly subject for the nonce. Now I can be humorous again.
Does anyone believe it's in me any more? Sure it is.
But I still won't tell you any dead baby jokes.
Posted by: k at June 30, 2005 12:14 PM (ywZa8)
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It's interesting to me that in most arenas I'm a LOT more squeamish than Attila-Hub, who is a military historian and reads about things like torture on a regular basis.
There is one subject, however, in which I'm a bit less squeamish than he is, and that has to do with crime--very often crimes against women. Because I'm working on a murder mystery, I've had to simply turn off the part of myself that might sympathize with the victim of a serial killer.
Which means that an atrocity committed against a GI by the Viet Cong, would leave me gasping and give me nightmares. My husband would soberly nod his head. But the EXACT SAME ACTION committed by a serial killer against a female victim would disturb Attila-Hub for hours on end, whereas I'd probably keep eating my peanut butter sandwich when I heard about it.
In general, I'm the compassionate one who feels genuine sympathetic pain in her body when hearing about horrific things. But I couldn't follow the careers of guys like Ted Bundy if I hadn't found the "off" switch somewhere.
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 30, 2005 01:29 PM (RGWNz)
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Huh. Go figure.
I'll have to give that one a good slow think.
Posted by: k at June 30, 2005 04:07 PM (6krEN)
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As I Grow Older
. . . I'm more and more in awe of Mark Steyn. How can one man stay right on top of politics in the U.S., Canada, England, and Europe in general all at the same time?
I had a boyfriend who used to refer to Isaac Asimov as "the Asimov brothers." That's how I feel about Steyn, who is always just brilliant—whether I agree with him or not. He's a top-notch writer and a top-notch thinker.
In his latest Right Wing News Interview with John Hawkins, Steyn discusses his favorite—excuse me, favourite—bloggers, reserving his highest accolades for Canada's Kate McMillan, who is indeed one of the very best out there.
Needless to say, we were all button-busting proud at the Cotillion.
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Scroll Down
. . . and check out the Andrew Sullivan freak-out advisory on my left sidebar. I'll have to pop over and see what the poor dear is waxing emotional about.
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Mayor Sam
. . . has
a thing or two to say about the "caveman element" within the California GOP.
A lot of us share this feeling: both parties in the Golden State are controlled by their extreme wings. It benefits no one.
A lot of people like to point to Reagan as a genuine conservative. He was one. But he wasn't anti-gay, and he discussed immigration issues without coming across as racist. We need someone positive, who can truly appeal to disaffected Democrats. Arnold is a start, but he's one guy, and we need more people to do the work in the most populated state of the union.
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The CSM
. . . has a jolly little
story about monkeys. Even better: the story is "found art" from his in-box.
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Interesting Discussion
here about the "chickenhawk meme," and how morally and logically bankrupt it is.
Everyone's quoting Hitchens, who slices the meme into ribbons.
Goldstein would like us in the 'sphre to put an end to this "chickenhawk" bullshit once and for all.
Do, let's.
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Just Don't Call It "Unexplodable."
Please.
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The top's a little reminiscent of the Empire State. But there, I could nitpick the designs all day, because what I'd really like is the originals back.
Sigh.
Posted by: ilyka at June 29, 2005 05:00 PM (g4AkI)
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Hm. I don't care for the look of the old WTC towers at all. But I would like the people back.
Naturally, I wish the whole thing had never happened.
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 29, 2005 05:34 PM (RGWNz)
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Edloe's Gone
I'm sorry, Laurence. I know it's
tough, and you'll be in my thoughts over the next few days.
I'm afraid I just didn't realize how serious this was. Not at all. I thought she just had a kitty infection.
But, please: I love "Ask the Cats." Check in with the other kitties in a few weeks and see if they want to continue: maybe in a vertical "stacked format" or something like that. Don't be hasty! What would Arafat do? (Oh, wait.)
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Hope for the New York Times?
Holy fucking
shit.
I'll believe it when they ditch the airhead for a chick sporting a brain. (See post below.)
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Cathy Seipp
Delivered the ultimate smackdown to Maureen Dowd in
NRO.
Dowd's relentless shallowness and silliness are her most obvious crimes against readers. And because she's the only woman with a plum twice-a-week spot on the New York Times op-page, the tacit and insulting message she gives off is that female political thinkers can't be expected to actually think. Sometimes when she's skittering around, like a water-beetle on a pond's surface, Dowd happens upon a notion she likes a lot. But rather than develop it into an actual argument, she just repeats it endlessly, like an eight-year-old with a knock-knock joke.
That's it: the editors of the New York Times are convinced that women can be brilliant thinkers. So much so, they give the prime space to an airhead. But because most of her readers agree with the general notions floating around in her columns, they haven't noticed that the Empress is a nude, ditzy chick.
Via Decision '08, who shares his own views on what a jackass Dowd is.
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Thanks for the link; I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying Dowd's sabbatical, though it's too good to last...
Posted by: Mark Coffey at June 29, 2005 06:43 AM (eOuht)
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June 28, 2005
A Question for My SoCon Friends
If a close friend of yours confided in you that he/she was homosexual, what would you do?
a) try and get him/her into counseling that will "cure" the problem;
b) renounce the friendship;
c) kick him/her out of your church;
d) pray for him/her;
e) tell this person that despite your conviction that homosexuality is a sin/character flaw, you still care about him/her, and always will.
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I don't think you have to do anything. S/he has not asked you to do anything, has s/he? Unless, homosexuality announced, your friend insists on changing your friendship, for instance, to include homosexual sex with you (I am assuming, here), I don't see how your relationship has changed.
I make a distinction between persons and institutions. Candidly, I don't care what people do with their bodies sexually, within quite wide limits of agreement and nonviolence. But I do care about social institutions. So I can and do argue that some kinds of social institutions are socially unwise (e.g., homosexual marriage). I guess this philosophy qualifies as libertarian conservatism, sort of.
Posted by: Iam Doubt at June 29, 2005 10:36 AM (Wrk9m)
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How about civil unions that confer the same legal benefits?
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 29, 2005 12:20 PM (RGWNz)
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Tell them I still love them but let them no in no uncertain terms that their choice of the gay lifestyle is dangerous and wrong and that I cannot ever condone such behavior.
I would say the same thing to someone who told me they were a committed adulterer or gambler or boozer......I still love you but disagree with your lifestyle!!
Posted by: Albertanator at June 29, 2005 02:42 PM (Uagor)
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The correct answer for every Christian should be "Both D and E!" Who is beyond redemption? Who doesn't need it? We are ALL sinners, so who's place is it to say that Gays are beneath you? Not you!
Good question!
Posted by: Ranten. N. Raven at June 29, 2005 07:14 PM (xW3rR)
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Albertanator, you beat me to the punch. Try plugging another issue into the above options a-e, in place of homosexual/homosexuality, and see how the option sounds.
Such as g@mbling addict/g@mbling addiction?
Adulterer/adultery?
Alcoholic/alcoholism?
Pedophile/pedophilia?
If you really are a friend, the answers will run similar. It is just the high emotional charge to the question of homosexuality that makes the above list sound somewhat like the "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" question.
Of course the above substitution suggestion will run against the grain of those who insist that is simply the way they are born, that it is genetic and not a lifestyle choice. Who knows, maybe they are right? I don't know.
But I do know that I was born to a long line of alcoholics on my dad's side, all of whom died quite young. My dad broke the curse, and I am free too. But if I wasn't I could certainly point to my Irish blood as the root cause. Would I be right to do so? Can I get a pass for my tendency (*ahem*) toward a hot temper for the same reason? I really was born this way.
Personally my response would be different depending upon whether this friend was a fellow believer or someone outside the Body. If he/she is not a believer, it's not really a question of doing anything. You don't "fix people up" so they can get saved. That's getting the cart before the horse in a big and ugly way. D would certainly apply in either case, and if I really did give a serious damn, and they are a brother/sister in Christ, it would be unloving and wrong of me for E not to eventually come up.
Posted by: Desert Cat at June 29, 2005 08:22 PM (xdX36)
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I belong to a Church that believes homosexuals are, essentially, called to a life of celibacy. Dennis Prager doesn't think that, but he does think they are generally called to a childless life. (Though he and I agree that heterosexual couples should be first in the adoption line, I do see homosexual couples as a big step up from single parents.)
I just don't know whether I see celibacy as a realistic lifetime option for most gay people. That's a heavy thing for civil society to demand.
Compulsive behaviors such as addictions hurt the person practicing them, and usually their families and friends. Pedophilia hurts children, and therefore can never be condoned by a responsible society, much as we might feel for those who are trapped in it (when we're not fantasizing about doing them physical violence if they've ever acted out on this obsession).
But I'd truly like to know what everyone thinks. There will be a follow-up question, of course, next week.
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 29, 2005 09:25 PM (RGWNz)
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Celibacy is certainly the option that Catholic priests and nuns choose. If it is not a realistic option, then are you suggesting that at some level, compulsive behavior is involved?
Posted by: Desert Cat at June 30, 2005 08:30 AM (xdX36)
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I said it was a heavy thing for civil society to demand--not necessarily for a church to demand.
The desire for sexual expression and human companionship is a very deep one. My mate fits the social conventions: he's male, I'm female, we can get married and live as a couple without raising any eyebrows.
My friend B. lives with a man. Their relationship appears every bit as strong and fulfilling as mine. I'm not positive my Lord would think that such a bad thing, after all.
I'd certainly rather that my gay friends look for fulfilling relationships, versus ending up at gay bars.
Surely for all of us at one point or another, the sex drive feels like an imperative: that isn't "compulsion." It's biology.
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 30, 2005 09:02 AM (RGWNz)
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And I left out of my comment the distinction I make between the Body life and civil society, which I assumed you'd understand. (So technically I'm not much of a SoCon anyway...)
When I was young and single I used to struggle with the idea that fornication would be frowned upon by my Lord. Surely he knew the needs I had--he himself had made me with those needs after all. And it was only right and natural and beautiful that I should fulfill those needs with someone that I cared for. Surely this couldn't be wrong?
I'm pretty sure my justifications didn't have any impact on his perfect will for me, however.
Switching to the civil side of things for a moment, I propose a thought experiment. Let's assume for a moment that civil unions/gay marriage make sense socially, and creating this new institution or modifying the ancient institution are justified for all of the various reasons given.
In all true honestly, and given the arguments that are put forward in favor of gay marriage/civil unions, what about polygamy/polyandry? What would be so wrong about allowing a woman two husbands, or a man two wives, or four or more people to marry themselves together a la Heinlein's
Stranger? Especially if they have a genuine three-way bond through their bisexuality?
There are a significant number of people for whom the concept of monogamy seems utterly foreign--people for whom a relationship with two or three or more people feels far more natural and normal. And if the primary reason for marriage is, as SoCon's believe, the creation of a legal and financial framework that fosters the raising of children, then would not a polyamorous marriage potentially create an environment even more potentially supportive, nurturing and stable? For people who share virtually all aspects of their lives together in a bond of love, why should they be denied the right to celebrate their relationship in marriage, just as would hetero and homosexual couples? And why should they be denied the visitation rights, the property rights, the inheritance rights, etc. that hetero and homosexual couples would enjoy?
I mean these people may not be just like you and I, but who are we to prejudge and say that such an arrangement could never work. Just because it wouldn't work for us personally? Wouldn't it somewhat bigoted to try to impose our monogamous values on the polyamorous? This is about the celebration of the bonds of love in committed relationships, whether these bonds exist between two, three or more people.
Thoughts?
Posted by: Desert Cat at June 30, 2005 10:51 AM (n/TmV)
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I'd make it legal, and I'll tell you why: it would be a lot easier to police the Mormon renegade sects (mostly here in our own southwest) if polygamy were legal, and make sure that 13- and 14-year-old girls were not being forced into these marriages against their will.
As things stand, the entire culture is underground and guarded, so infiltration is very difficult. It would be easier if AZ and NM, at least, gave its blessing to the "marriages," so we could work on the rape problem.
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 30, 2005 01:06 PM (RGWNz)
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I'll give you credit for consistency then.
(I've worked with some of those people--one of the Holm brothers from Colorado City had/has a construction business. When I'm working for a public agency, I can't just say I won't hire you 'cause you're icky. But my neck hairs were on end pretty much through the entire contract. I'm quite certain one of the "wives" of one of his sons couldn't have been more than 14).
Something else itching at the back of my mind though:
I'd certainly rather that my gay friends look for fulfilling relationships, versus ending up at gay bars.
They don't now? And having a marriage option will make fulfilling homosexual monogamy possible where it is now not possible?
Posted by: Desert Cat at June 30, 2005 09:59 PM (xdX36)
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I meant looking for fulfilling relationships instead of aiming for celibacy and ending up at the bars in defeat.
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 30, 2005 11:27 PM (RGWNz)
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Kinky Michelle Malkin
Excuse me. That's Kinky Friedman and Michelle Malkin, here together talking about RoveGate at
Trey Jackson's pad.
Malkin: "What was the whole Guantanamo debate about anyway, if not a demonstration of what Karl Rove was talking about?" (I'm paraphrasing, but I think it's pretty close.)
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Hotel Souter,
where every room will feature a copy of
Atlas Shrugged, rather than the Bible.
I mean, if we're going to abuse eminent domain endlessly, let's get right to it, and start with the Justices who supported this particular attack on property rights.
Via Tall Glass of Milk.
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It would be a delicious irony, wouldn't it?
Posted by: Dean Esmay at June 28, 2005 05:28 PM (Fs6IG)
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I'll book my trip there while the thing is still under construction!
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 28, 2005 09:10 PM (RGWNz)
3
I'm rather hoping the developer sets up a publically traded corporation, allowing us to buy shares to support this development. I'd buy a couple just to make a statement.
Posted by: Desert Cat at June 28, 2005 10:22 PM (xdX36)
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Wow. April Winchell.
She was always someone I'd heard about as being incredibly talented, yet ferocious in that way that comics are sometimes. Within most really funny people there is a dark side that ofen leaves me unsure when they are going to pull the switchblade out.
April, in particular, had the reputation for being a tough woman, someone whose bad side you never wanted to get on.
But I've always enjoyed listening to her on Mr. KABC on Friday nights; I think she's with him one night out of the month (and they do occasional specials together, like they did this past Halloween).
I cannot feel anything but deep respect for a woman who lost her father a long time ago, and finally, mere days after he died, was able to write this. (No permalink; see the Monday evening entry.)
I have plenty to say about complicated father-daughter relationships, and dysfunctional families. And how even Christopher Milne (of all people) felt estranged from his dad. Later, though. What I admire are comics who are able to come to terms with their pasts, and talented people who deal with their demons in the here-and-now.
Sure: it's good to share your talent with the world. But it's more important to be a human being.
Huzzah, April.
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Ilyka
. . .
deconstructs her friendly neighborhood "feminist" bigot.
One of my blogging ambitions, of course, is never to make Ilyka mad. Go see why.
Posted by: Attila at
03:17 PM
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Post contains 27 words, total size 1 kb.
1
No danger of making me mad, but you are making me slap my own forehead in disgust, because you just reminded me that I should have credited you for me finding the Pandagon posts to begin with. Got there via a winding road from feministe to medial girl to comments at media girl, in which I think you linked the Amanda (I'll never hear that old Boston song the same way again!) posts if memory serves.
She's, uh, she's fun people. Yah sure, you betcha.
Posted by: ilyka at June 28, 2005 03:26 PM (g4AkI)
2
Yup. I'm real sorry I missed that episode with the tequila and the fire dept.
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 28, 2005 03:29 PM (RGWNz)
3
that episode with the tequila and the fire dept.
I know now I'm being guilty of just what I've carped at her for doing, but I've seen pictures: You would NEED the tequila.
Posted by: ilyka at June 28, 2005 05:39 PM (g4AkI)
Posted by: Attila Girl at June 28, 2005 08:19 PM (RGWNz)
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