May 26, 2007
Brunch with My Mother.
She knows I'm broke; I know she's broke. So neither one of us wanted to talk much about money, but I paid the bill while she was in the ladies' room. Afterward, she pulled a twenty-dollar bill out of her purse and put it in the glove box of my car as we returned to her house.
The omelets of the Magis.
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My in-laws are like this. It gets annoying/amusing at times.
Posted by: John at May 29, 2007 05:43 PM (9ngM8)
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The people I know leave bills for $20 with looming due dates. Then don't answer their phones for a few days. Unless they have caller ID, of course.
Posted by: Darrell at May 29, 2007 07:45 PM (5r+gQ)
3
Caller I.D. is essential to the debtor lifestyle.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 29, 2007 09:58 PM (p+Tpu)
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Yes.
Lotteries
are taxes, and they tax those who can least afford it.
I am not anti-gambling, but state-run lotteries prey on the poor, and they should stop. They are an obscenity.
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I'm Going Back to the Left.
I'm sorry, but they need me more than the right does. Their forgery skills are lacking, and their document-evaluation abilities
haven't improved at all since Rathergate.
They've all let their subscriptions to Communication Arts lapse; it's sad.
I'm no graphic designer, but one does pick up a few things here and there after working in print for 20 years. And years of practicing my teachers' signatures to show my mother—and my mother's signature to show to school administrators—gave me something of an eye for these types of detail.
The left needs me. I must go.
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The Left should just stick to making up stories out of whole cloth like the Valerie Plame nonsense. They are still getting mileage out of that fantasy.
Before you make a move, remember the Left's policy on firearms. And facts.
Posted by: Darrell at May 27, 2007 07:32 AM (lz6gK)
2
Would I have to weed out a few of my guns? Maybe not, then . . .
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 27, 2007 12:00 PM (VgDLl)
3
Better stick around here. Wouldn't be the same without you Princess.
Posted by: RWB at May 28, 2007 01:44 PM (4j8Ry)
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My Friend David Linden
. . . has been
labeled a "professor of Zionism," and mentally ill by Thomas R. Pochari of the Joo-Patrol. Oh, yes—and David's probably an "alcoholic," too. I'm honestly trying to get mad, but I'm giggling too hard to be the true-blue loyal friend I want to be.
If you want to know the truth, the bothersome thing about David is his very lack of any sort of mental illness. He's always upbeat, never depressed, relentlessly productive, and . . . in short, the sort of person whom deeply flawed people like me would be terribly tempted to envy and resent, if he weren't always feeding us coq au vin and letting us drink his single-malt Scotch—there's that cunning, clever Jewish bribery at work!
I've never seen David lapse into a "victim" mentality—not even once, and we were all teenagers together—most of us moody, horny youngters with a lot more brains than common sense. Except David, damn him. (Well. I'm sure he was just as horny as the rest of us. But he sure was a good deal less of a drama queen than anyone else I knew.)
Ah, but back to the Vice-President and Jews: Ace calls this potent combo "the mother of all storms." Most of the rest of us just collapse into laughter at the idea that Jews supported the U.S. invasion of Iraq in disproportionate numbers. Unless by "the Jews" we really mean Bill Kristol and Jonah Goldberg, in which case it all sort of hangs together in a beautiful—albeit racist—way.
I would love to worry about "the Jews." (Please note the definite article, because it's somehow always perfectly clear which Joooos we're talking about.) However, I'm way too busy worry about the kiwis. Are you blind to the subtle messages in Peter Jackson's movies? Do you not see what the New Zealanders are up to? I once saw Dick Cheney talking to someone from New Zealand. Wake up, Sheeple!
As for Professor Linden, check out his blog. Homework assignment: read his book, and see if you can find the hidden Zionist messages within! Careful, now—it's subtle stuff! For instance, when he talks about "neural pathways," it's a parable for "committing acts of aggression against Arab and Persian children."
You just need the Zionist decoder ring. I think they're free right now, in Rice Krispies boxes, though. Good luck, kids!
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I wasn't sure which was more hilarious: the bigotry or the grandiosity. ("How could Linden tell me to fuck off?
Doesn't he know who I am?
Yeah, Buddy: we know who you are. You're the web bigot who thinks the holocaust happened because German elites got fed up with all those Jewish nuts.)
I mean, I'm really trying to get some righteous indignation going, here, but every time I start to feel mad I start laughing again.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 26, 2007 04:04 PM (VgDLl)
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May 24, 2007
George Will on Immigration.
This is the first really sensible critique I've read of the current Immigration Bill. True, the crux of the matter was summed up by
Ace over a week ago,* but I was skeptical because of what I perceived to be his passion on the subject. (Not that I don't dig Ace, right down to his toes and all that—but I was "filtering" out—semi-consciously—what I felt was a bias on his part.)
If our primary objection to this bill is that spending money on enforcement does not equal success in enforcement, then our focus should not be on bitching and moaning, but rather on asking for increased accountability here, just as many of us do with respect to education.
In other words, we might try analysis rather than drama, and take up the mantra of "enforcement benchmarks" (or, "objective measurements") before this bill gets out of committee.
Or, you know: you can all have it your way, and set yourselves on fire in front of an INS office. I'll be home, drinking a dirty martini and smoking a cigar.
Oh, hey. I didn't mean to be callous. But look, boys and girls: do we want some resources allocated to enforcement? If we do, then keep going. Do not simply have a tantrum and pretend that this bill is a reprise of 1986. Whatever it is, it isn't that, and perfectionism doesn't help in this situation.
"Pessimism of the mind. Optimism of the will."
—Gramsci
(I don't care that he was a commie; I care that he was correct on that little-understood issue.)
Via Mickey Kaus, via Glenn Reynolds.
* I spent a bunch of time looking for Ace's post, but his search function isn't working, and I have a character study to finish before I sleep. So if someone else can find the "enforcement doesn't mean enforcement" post, please throw me the URL via comments or email.
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After Senator Sessions revealed
some of the crap they found in this bill, I'm off the wagon. That and Bush's condescending speech the other day.
Let it die an ignoble death and try again from scratch.
I think I'm just about the rest of the way off the Bush wagon about now too, for that matter...
Posted by: Desert Cat at May 31, 2007 08:51 PM (ogl5V)
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On the Future of Chrysler
Hm. It's not like it was a
good match for Daimler.
All I want to see is more cars from them: round, responsive cars. They should keep making turbo PTs, and maybe a fuel-efficient PT that I could pretend to buy and then get a performance model instead of, for my next car.
If they were to create a hybrid PT I would send them chocolates every single day.
And if I every give up my woody, I want flames. If you think about it, they should come standard.
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May 23, 2007
Lutherans. They're Such Butchers.
Iowahawk
reports:
Kohut pointed to one of the study's key findings that only 29% of all respondents agreed that "bloody, random violence against infidels" was "always" or "frequently" justified, versus 56% who said such violence was "seldom" or "never" justified. The approval of violence rose slightly among younger Lutherans and when the hypothetical violence was targeted against Presbyterians, but still fell well short of a majority.
"The only demographic cohort we saw where murderous random violence had a majority support was among 18-35 year old male followers of the Wisconsin Synod," said Kohut. "And that was barely above the margin of error. Even then, fewer than half (41% to 46%) said they would personally volunteer to carry out the violence themselves."
Further bolstering the findings, Kohut noted that fewer than 6% of respondents physically attacked field interviewers during the survey.
So, nothing to worry about. Except for the Presbyterians, of course—but I'm not one of them, so all is well.
I called up Sean and asked him to read me the dialogue from Iowahawk's article, since I can't really do the accent myself. "Would you read this aloud—and Fargo it up for me, please?" I enquired.
He refused, so we aren't friends any more.
But now I find myself checking under my car for bombs every day. Young Lutheran males, you know . . .
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First, I'm from Wiscaaansin not South Dakota.
Second, Lutherans got over Calvin and the Presbyterians centuries ago. We gave up on their messed up deal with pre-destination. Today, we even live nicely with the Catholics. We Missouri Synod Lutherans save our ire for ELCA, Lutheran In Name Only--LINO, and making sure the hymnal contains songs with tunes we can sing to.
Posted by: Sean Hackbarth at May 24, 2007 05:25 AM (HxQb8)
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I'll have my Calvanist friends send you some tulips . . .
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 24, 2007 03:10 PM (VgDLl)
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They have to go through the metal detector first.
Posted by: Sean Hackbarth at May 24, 2007 05:17 PM (8lL1c)
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Okay, hardass: what is the difference between the MC-Ls and the Wisconsin Synod? Anything worth reporting?
And . . . metal detectors? What's happened to your faith?
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 25, 2007 02:26 AM (VgDLl)
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Question for Today:
Why is it that people who believe in astrology—really, really believe it—are so annoying?
I'm being no more rational than they are when I integrate Fung Shui into the way I arrange my furniture, so this isn't a left brain vs. right brain thing.
I suppose it irritates me because in some cases it appears to be a substitute for real religion, and a poor one at that.
Discuss.
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Stupidity kills thousands of people every day, and often it doesn't stop with the stupid person.
Those of us who are not stupid realize that a stupid person is dangerous not only to himself/herself, but to us as well.
Consequently, when we find that a person is inflicted by that form of stupidity known as belief in astrology, we get our mental guard up to protect ourselves. That guard is first experienced as annoyance.
Posted by: John at May 23, 2007 06:06 PM (UNZcj)
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Fate vs. Free Will.
Free Will is life.
Fate is death, it's followers are zombies (remember the video?).
Zombies are annoying.
-B
Posted by: Bob at May 23, 2007 07:08 PM (aTv/9)
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I'd expect a Cancer to say that!
Posted by: Darrell at May 23, 2007 09:48 PM (d/aUJ)
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Confronted by my rather un-Cancer-like personality, the die-hard astrology people always tell me that they knew all along that "it must have been a water sign."
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 23, 2007 10:20 PM (VgDLl)
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But, you were giving them a golden shower, right?
Posted by: Darrell at May 24, 2007 07:52 AM (KgDxt)
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I totally disagree that Feng Shui isn't rational. A basic model -- home tucked just down from the top of the hill, facing a plane with water body ahead. It's a survival strategy for our forebears in the old red-in-tooth-and-claw days so they can see their enemies approaching before the enemy sees them. The fact that it feeds the soul is probably related.
Posted by: Sissy Willis at May 24, 2007 01:19 PM (Q6JEL)
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Personally,
I feel that the government isn't doing its job unless it follows me home and makes sure I floss my teeth. After all, tooth decay is a serious
public health problem in this country.
For the children! And the grownups, too (after all, grownups are merely large children with lines around their eyes)!
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And Yet More on Moore.
See this little
nugget on Britain's NHS.
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The arrogance of this round mound of ground is beyond me. There must be no mirrors in his home.
Posted by: Dalsan at May 23, 2007 06:21 PM (Ek8qX)
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Or, more importantly, in his psyche.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 23, 2007 10:25 PM (VgDLl)
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Is Sicko Autobiographical?
Canadians are
taking issue with Michael Moore's latest faux-documentary:
At a news conference, Canadian journalists harangued Moore for, as Toronto Star film critic Peter Howell wrote, making "it seem as if Canada's socialized medicine is flawless and that Canadians are satisfied with the status quo." Apparently taken aback by the assault from the Canadian journalists, Moore said, "You Canadians! You used to be so funny! ... You gave us all our best comedians. When did you turn so dark?"
And Insty remarks:
I don't know, maybe three years on a waiting list for hemorrhoid surgery will do that to you . . . .
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"All We Are Saaaayiiinngg
. . . is give wetbacks a chance."
Or, at least Hugh at Big Lizards is suggesting that we give the immigration bill a chance: no contempt prior to investigation, right? And more hard data on its actual provisions is here.
So that makes, what?—eight of us slightly right-of-center bloggers whose heads are not about to explode over the immigration bill? There's the Anchoress, Beth, Sean, Hugh, Captain Ed, Jonah Goldberg (to some degree), Desert Cat, and me.
Hey—I think most illegals do end up assimilating. So I guess that makes me part of the "Coalition of the Instillin' [of American Values]."
Still: there ain't many of us. Maybe we need a cute icon, like a mortar & pestle with some delicious salsa or guacamole in it. Or perhaps a margarita glass!
Or a slice of beautiful Mexican papaya—those things are about the size of my truck. Yum.
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"Slightly" right-of-center? Wa-ait a-minnit...
Come now, you know I'm nearly at the wacko libertarian-right fringe. ;P
Posted by: Desert Cat at May 23, 2007 05:55 AM (ogl5V)
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Now, now, darlin'. It ain't the assimilation; it's the border. Even we hard-righters don't mind having a few more good neighbors, but I'd sure like to see better locks on the doors down south.
Things are getting a mite crowded up this way, and I'm running out of money to pay for 'em.
Posted by: Woody at May 23, 2007 07:36 AM (9kYWY)
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Oh, I'm totally into enforcement. It's just that the "ship the existing ones back" idea sounds impractical to me.
It seems to me that we need to get a move on in processing applications from
legal immigrants. Like, really get a move on there. Faster, please.
And, yeah--the ones who are just here, leading quiet lives and paying taxes into fictitious social security accounts, should be brought out of the shadows.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 23, 2007 08:34 AM (3F7vn)
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Why is it that the right wing believes in the free flow of goods and money between nations and insists on removing barriers to trade, but when it comes to labor, the free flow stops and the "we gotta protect our borders" theme kicks in.
Why not in a free economy the price of labor be determined by global demand and supply? And labor be allowed to go where there are jobs and opportunities.
Or is it the case that some labor is more equal and desirable than others?
If America really believes in the free market economy, break down that southern wall and let that labor flow legally.
Posted by: Azmat Hussain at May 23, 2007 12:31 PM (s1AoM)
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As a legal Immigrant from Canada, married to a legal Mexican, he came in the legal way, the first thing he did when he came here was to learn English, had only English friends, etc...... I see from my husband's family, most of them haven't assimilated.... Most of his family that live here don't speak English.. alot of them got in on the '86 Amnesty deal, and haven't assimilated.
And as a legal Immigrant who jumped through all the hoops I resent those who don't have to. I'd love to skip out on having to pay my back taxes, especially... lol. As a legal immigrant I paid the fees, I had my AIDS test, I had my TB test, if I ever go on any government handouts my mother will get the bill as she had to sponsor me. Also, in the '86 amnesty I lost my Dual Citizenship... It's a slap in the face to us who came in legally.
Posted by: Leanne at May 23, 2007 01:57 PM (Q+cRY)
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But surely the solution there, Leanne, is to make it easier and faster to process the legitimate applicants, like those in your family.
The dual citizenship thing is funny, because I know officially the State Department doesn't allow it, but it happens all the time. I have friends who still have passports from other countries.
And to be honest, I'm tired of hearing that illegals don't pay taxes. Of
course they pay taxes. The taxes are
withheld from their checks. The difference is that their social security is withdrawn, but doesn't go into a real account.
And please note that the current bill gives illegal immigrants plenty of hoops to jump through--including a requirement that they learn English.
The trick is to start sorting through this population. There's no way to make it completely fair to you, but we can make it safer for the rest of us, by sorting out the criminal element and the refuse-to-assimilate element, and giving the others a path to follow.
Otherwise, we will just have a caste system, which is anti-American and downright unsafe.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 23, 2007 02:47 PM (VgDLl)
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Fine then, let the flood of 3rd worlders begin... just like after the '86 amnesty. That's what I'm afraid of.
I don't understand why the authorities aren't upholding the laws already on the books.... fining companies, deporting criminals, tighter border security (like the fence)....
I'm not anti Immigration... I don't see how we can keep track of people w/this new amnesty, when we have lost track of something like 600,000, if not more, as of the other day. I just heard today that it took 7 years to register the 2.7 million made legal in '86.
And you know the Democrats and La Raza are not going to go for the fees that is in this bill, they will be waived and deemed unfair.
You'd think they'd make some provision that Mexico has to make changes in their economy, so people can stay there, but, they'd rather export the poorest of the poor here.
And, all I know is that the illegals here in California are costing the taxpayers $10 billion a year... WTF???
I had made the comment about the back taxes, because it's in the bill they don't have to be paid.
Hey, I don't have the answers, I just don't think it's fair to all the millions around the world that are waiting to get here the legal way.
But, I like your blog!!!!
Posted by: Leanne at May 23, 2007 07:23 PM (Q+cRY)
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Leanne, I know it's popular to refer to this bill as an "amnesty," but have you actually looked at its provisions? Have you looked at the enforcement steps that need to be taken before any illegals can be normalized? Have you looked at all the hoops they have to jump through in order to receive citizenship?
I just hope you're looking at solid reporting on the bill itself, rather than the things being said
about it by people who insist on viewing it as 86 all over again.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 23, 2007 10:30 PM (VgDLl)
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Yes, I have.. and those hoops will not be hoops when all is said and done.
This might sound 'racist', but, I don't appreciate rewarding people who don't respect our laws and just barge in the country. And, as for 'doing the jobs Americans won't do', I drive up to Seattle from Big Bear CA 3x a year... we get up to Northern CA, and from then on, you don't see hardly ANY immigrants in the fast food places, I even saw a teenage white girl cleaning the toilet in a Dairy Queen, everybody speaks English, there's no biligual menu @ the McDonald's, etc. It's just an observation that's hard to miss... especially compared to life in Southern CA. Oh, and go to Bakersfield... my mother in law lives there.... there's a taco stand @ every single gas station on this one big street.... I don't mind, because I love Mexican tacos (lol)... but, it's too much. You see nice little towns turning into Barrios.
And why does anybody trust anything Kennedy has to say about Immigration... he's been in on I believe 3 different Immigration bills/laws, and they were total failures... promises never kept.... laws never upheld.
Posted by: leanne at May 24, 2007 08:18 AM (Q+cRY)
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The difference being that this time the promises are actually
written into the bill.
Does it give you any heart at all to see how upset your "opposition" is to this bill? Does it make you think there might be some merit in it after all?
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 24, 2007 03:45 PM (VgDLl)
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Re the opposition, what that means is they won't stop fighting after the ink is dry. Which means we have to keep fighting for the provisions that are important to us.
Which is why I can well understand some of the concern on the Right. Because the Left is relentless--more relentless than we are usually, we could see the guarantees/promises stripped out over time, between activist court decisions, and future "modifications" to the bill by the current Demo majority once it is signed into law.
1986 is a powerful argument in favor of this view.
Posted by: Desert Cat at May 24, 2007 04:17 PM (B2X7i)
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But 1986 didn't have actual provisions for enforcement--just a vague I.O.U. "gentleman's agreement."
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 24, 2007 09:09 PM (VgDLl)
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May 22, 2007
Would Someone Buy This Book
. . . for
my husband? It'll change his life. Or, um . . . someone's life.
I've tried the second desk option. Unfortunately, the other member of my household had to set limits when that turned into a third and fourth desk.
I've also been told that, no, we can't just get another house to be the "neat" one that people are allowed to visit.
Via Insty, who is apparently a member of the clutter underground.
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The Anchoress
. . . on, of course, the
Immigration Bill:
John Podhoretz says there things to like and hate about the bill and heÂ’s distrustful of it, astonished by all the screaming, but doesnÂ’t mind if the screaming brings a better bill. I donÂ’t eitherÂ…but honestly, I worry that the screaming and foot-stomping, if successful, will become a permanent tactic of the hard-right, and then weÂ’ll have both parties constantly doing this acting-out-and-threatening stuff.
There does seem to be a sort of contest going on as to which group—the hard left, or the hard right—can be more immature. It's a sort of race to the bottom.
"Oh, my God! It's 1986 all over again! But this time, it's the end of the world!"
Well, no. And—no.
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This is all just a political game, America is not open to immigrants. I can share my own story, after living here legally for the last seven years paying taxes, social security and following all the rules, going through all the procedures, spending over twenty-five thousand dollars, there is no green card in sight. If anything there are more procedural road blocks and more money being given to the Lawyers.
Whenever, someone talks about amenesty or giving legal status to a bunch of illegals I am just rolling on the floor crying. The latinos are the new slaves of America, if you give them legal status they might start making minimum wages, and might even ask for benifits. It will not happen in this lifetime, otherwise we will have to go to a new country to get our slaves.
So please give us all a big break, the reasonable thinking people know what a farce all this is.
Posted by: azmat hussain at May 22, 2007 06:44 PM (mdszq)
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Don't be ridiculous, Az--we'll always be able to find slaves/wage slaves. And if we don't, we'll just clone the poor to make more workers we can exploit.
Don't you know
anything?
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 22, 2007 07:45 PM (/obaa)
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May 21, 2007
Captain Ed
. . . on why the current immigration bill represents
progress, even if it doesn't offer perfection:
"It rewards illegal behavior; the penalty for illegal entry should be deportation."
There are 12 million illegals in the US. Let me explain how difficult that would be. In the first place, the ICE has to find them, usually where they work. They then have to build a probable cause for a raid and search warrants (unless we want to toss out the 4th Amendment). That takes quite a bit of time; it might take months to build that kind of a case against an employer, but at least it will take a few weeks. Then they raid the shop, arrest everyone without proper identification, and start the deportation process—which requires a hearing for each person in court to determine their status. During that period, we have to house and feed them.
Now, let's say we can summon up the vast resources it would take to send 10,000 people a month through that long, laborious process. (In comparison, we have 16,000 murders a year, and it sometimes takes years to resolve the cases.) It would still take 100 years to deport all 12 million illegals in that manner—while clogging our courts, eating up our law-enforcement resources, and disrupting American commerce and politics for a century, all while we're fighting a war with radical Islamist terrorists.
Emphasis added; read the whole thing.
H/t: The Anchoress, of course. She's one of the maybe half-dozen bloggers considered "right-of-center" who still want to give this bill the benefit of a doubt, and keep moving forward. We are very much in the minority right now. (The comments to her post are recommended, btw: there is the usual "we are legal and we went through hell to get here, and we want everyone else to go through hell, too" non-argument, along with some interesting flashbacks to the Dubai Port deal flap, which was hardly the rightosphere's—or talk radio's—finest hour.)
Bottom line: I'm seeing a lot more emotion on the right regarding this issue lately than I am solid reasoning. And it worries me. Very, very much.
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Well I tiptoe just a bit on this issue, because it looks like what the Right doesn't want to have happen is likely to happen in some form anyway. And I'm not so sure that it will be a wholly bad thing.
Regarding "rewarding law breaking", sometimes it is the law that needs to be adjusted. That's one that too many on the Right have a hard time stomaching. I suppose this is where my libertarian leanings make me part company with the statist Republican mainstream.
As long as what we end up with is an adequate and legal means for employers to hire the help they need, and a stronger enforcement regime against those who continue to enter illegally, I'm likely to be satisfied. My larger concern is getting the border secured, and if that means taking the pressure off the border by creating a legal path to residency for those who previously violated that border, then so be it.
I'm not likely to be completely happy with the final result, but the status quo is worse than anything now being considered.
Posted by: Desert Cat at May 21, 2007 06:51 PM (ogl5V)
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I have relatives in Asia who've been biding their time, doing
their paperwork, following the law. Suddenly 12 million
law-breakers are going to get in line in front of them.
It will take years to process 12 million sets of papers.
My relatives will die of old age before they get here.
(Hmm, maybe I'll adopt their kids.)
Whatever happened to "equal protection under the law"?
Also, why the left okay with paying illegal aliens low wages,
but Walmart needs to pay citizens higher wages than they do?
-Bob
Posted by: Bob at May 21, 2007 07:31 PM (aTv/9)
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Bob the key is to make sure your concerns are heard. IF you have relatives in Asia that are in line then call and fight to get those concerns met in the bill.
It is not a reason to the kill the bill. This is a process and there is alot in this bill. THe 12 million here and the issues to deal with it are just a part of it.
Also remember that groups like FAIR. NUMMBERS USA, and CIS that is behind the opposition to this bill don't won't you relatives to come over either. THey are pretty much against all immigration even those legally. Something to keep in mind when picking alliances
JH
Louisiana
Posted by: jhood at May 21, 2007 11:09 PM (lrzQR)
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Bob:
I know. I hate that. I, too, would like a system that doesn't suck. But in order to get one that
doesn't suck, we might first have to accept one that simply sucks less.
Theoretically, my friends-of-friends in Eastern Europe would be able to get here just as easily as those who are already in the Americas, through the accident of birth. But they cannot. Those who are born in the Americas have an advantage, just as I have an advantage through having been born here (through, BTW, no virtue of my own).
Desert:
Took you long enough to weigh in, here! I've been waiting . . .
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 21, 2007 11:28 PM (3F7vn)
5
I hear very little discussion of what instantly legalizing 12 million illegal immigrants is going to do to this country's social services and the costs to the taxpayers.
We are not talking about 12 million skilled workers. For the most part, these people are poor and uneducated. They are going to be a burden on social services as it is, and I do not even want to think what is going to happen once the next recession hits.
Posted by: Mark at May 22, 2007 10:36 AM (HjIN7)
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Almost all that I am aware of are working in the construction trades. Those are skills that are not hard to pick up on the job, if they don't already have them before crossing the border.
As far as the impact to social services, I'm not sure it would be much worse than right now. Even Arizona, with our propositions that were supposed to prohibit illegals from obtaining social services, still provide them as far as I know. Legal status hasn't been a barrier to benefits so far. Why would legalization change that?
Posted by: Desert Cat at May 22, 2007 06:56 PM (ogl5V)
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Actually if we can get them on the tax rolls instead of being paid under the table, it might be a wash.
Anyone done that analysis?
Posted by: Desert Cat at May 22, 2007 06:57 PM (ogl5V)
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At this point--at least in CA--everyone needs a social security card to work, so people simply get fake ones. But the taxes and Social Security are being paid--just into bogus accounts.
Verdon over at Outside the Beltway did an analysis a while back that concluded that illegal immigrants were, in fact, a "net drag" on the economy, but I know for a damned fact that a lot of them do pay taxes--very often without receiving services beyond the routine health care they get at the county (which is a terrible thing: people going to the ER for routine care, which means it takes longer to treat real emergencies).
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 22, 2007 07:50 PM (/obaa)
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Not bogus Social Security accounts, STOLEN SS #'s. Stolen from real people--identity theft. Totally made-up numbers are discovered immediately. Numbers from deceased taxpayer also are red-flagged immediately. Real citizens find that someone else is making claims on their SS accounts, and it takes months to unravel. I knew someone who was injured in an explosion at work and found out someone was already receiving disability payments from his account. He was SOL, and it took almost a year to straighten out. The only solution is to let the people whose identity was stolen keep the excess contributions. Congress gives it back to the identity thieves under all plans. Examine those statements SS sends you every two or three years carefully. Report any inconsistencies immediately.
The latest trend with illegals are "hit and run" immigrants People that have no intention of living here permanently, and send 80-90% of their wages back to Mexico. They can only do this because "employers" are giving them room and board, usually in a cheaper single-family home that 15-20 workers use as a flop house. These people don't put any money back into the US economy, like a typical worker would do with normal spending. They pay little or no taxes because their wages are paid under the table, or they claim a large number of dependents on their W-4 to keep withholding down.
Posted by: Darrell at May 23, 2007 10:14 AM (kIf/q)
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Right, Darrell--and how to we sort out the abuses from the quiet people who are simply doing their jobs, and paying taxes? (And, for that matter, find out about the slaves and near-slaves living among us?--some of 'em actually physically locked into the structures they work from?)
By reducing the numbers of people living in those shadows. There is
no way to sort through that population properly without reducing it as we go, by creating a path to citizenship for the ones who are simply looking for work, and otherwise keeping their noses clean.
And for every person you point to who is claiming benefits he/she is not entitled to, I'll point to the ones who pay taxes, but never receive the actual benefits, because they are
illegal. The door swings both ways, there.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 23, 2007 03:01 PM (VgDLl)
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Why don't we just set a reasonable number for new, legal immigration that we can all live with? If you aren't happy with 2 million/year(2005, including status change), how about 4? 5? 6? Whatever. Make the process quicker/easier too. And advertise it. Illegals spend, what, $25k and up for travel, documentation now. None of that going to US coffers. Make the real deal a bargain. The people who live here now have to be in on that decision. And once made, we have to stop people from getting around the rules. However necessary. Doesn't that sound fair? Keep in mind that 2.5 million is about a 1% growth rate annually. No country in the world allows more. No country in the world has to. You may not want construction/factory jobs, but there are plenty of American-born citizens that consider these PREMIUM jobs. Like most of my family! Maybe that's why when that meat plant in Iowa was raided, 1000's of real citizens applied for those jobs. Including LEGAL immigrants! Heck, 4000 people applied at a new WalMart by my house about a year or so ago--in a single day. It made the national news. Not everyone can or wants to push paper/sell balloon juice for a living.
They all take more than they pay into the system, according to detailed studies that I have read. Schools, second-language demands, medical care are just some of the costs. Those combined with claiming married and 9 dependents for their W-4s, even when they are single, make it a greater burden to taxpayers. The only studies that say differently are agenda-driven, and they are pretty easy to shoot down. The last study from the University of Chicago I remember said it takes ~35 years(of working at their avg. tax rates) to reach payback(actual cost vs. avg annual tax contributions) for a typical illegal alien. And most left the tax rolls before that level was reached.
A local town recently passed a referendum simply stating that it Will follow and enforce Federal immigration law, and various groups are lining up threatening to bury them with ligation costs. The town's lawyers are suggesting that they ignore the referendum. Civil war? You betcha! The real reason behind the problem? You betcha!
You handle the 10-30 million illegal aliens the same way who handle thieves--one arrest at a time. And you don't do it by sending them a letter telling them to show up for a hearing, allowing them to run. Somewhere, every day, someone shows up on the radar in a traffic stop, data check, something. When they do, they should be taken into custody right away. And DNA taken. Maybe that's a way to handle that name-change problem. RFID chips, tamper-proof methods? Maybe. Along with border enforcement/prevention, eventually we can make LEGAL immigration a preferred option. Maybe. Over time. And we have to stop electing people that rope-a-dope us into believing they want to solve the problem. They want you to shut up about it. Like in 1986. After amnesty, did they do 1 thing to seal the border? Enforce the law? To prevent it from happening again? Remember foreign aid? Remember how the number-one gripe of US taxpayers used to be foreign aid in the 60's and 70's? Know how Congress got you to shut up? By transferring $trillions of cumulative revenues (by now to) Europe and elsewhere. Where did the money come from? US industry. They did it with clean air laws, unleaded gasoline bans, and metrification. Ever wonder why green-Europe didn't switch to unleaded gasoline until the mid-90s? Didn't ban most CFCs when we did~1971? Did you know that Japan was ready to switch to English units(inches, etc) if the US banned metric imports? (I talked to the MITI people that were ready to issue $billions in orders to US machine tool manufacturers) if Congress acted.(The US was their marginal market and they would have been driven into an immediate depression if exports stopped). Instead, US manufacturers placed $billion of orders with Japanese/European machine tool manufacturers to get metric equipment. Did you know the US chemical industry had a 90%+ share of the world chemical market? Did you know they actually had people employed to make sure that share didn't rise?(I interviewed for one of those positions). Did you know about the 100s of $billions the oil refiners had to spend on higher-temperature/ higher-pressure processes to produce unleaded gasoline that the rest of the world didn't have to invest? Look up today's US share of the world chemical market... All on US industry's back. Thanks, Congress! Set whatever pollution laws you want. But make everyone join in. Or wait until they do. But you didn't want that, did you? Or to explain foreign aid.
Maybe 30 million quiet, hard-working Americans, along with a token 150 million rural Chinese would like to join me in Mexico, to work for a better life. Under Capitalism this time around. I bet in twenty years, we'll be building a fence. Heck, the way things are going, make that 2008. Note to my Chinese friends, because of concerns with Chupacabras, stop at you local arms factories and pick up some personal protection to bring along. And extras. Don't forget all those specialty places like the "123 Factory," "7103 Factory," and a few of those other places in the Chengdu and Sichuan Provinces. Don't forget the special toys you'll find there. Everyone needs protection to build a dream.
Posted by: Darrell at May 23, 2007 09:40 PM (d/aUJ)
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Darrell, if we make enforcement a priority and make it easier/faster to get here properly, I'll be a very happy camper.
Have you read American Alone yet? There are a number of other ways in which the U.S. subsidizes the rest of the world that you didn't even touch on--but Mark Steyn enumerates.
Posted by: Attila Girl at May 23, 2007 10:40 PM (VgDLl)
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My usual rant on this subject is the length of a book. And, of course, you have to touch on global warming. If only to show that these things continue. And the real reason for the hysteria. I didn't read Steyn(thanks for the tip), I lived it. All this money involuntarily confiscated from American industry(with a simultaneous windfall profits tax in place, no less) was designed to buy the world's love. That worked out great, didn't it?
In our next lesson, we will talk about when the Euro was issued with its value set at one US dollar. The markets quickly set the real value at 50 US cents. What changed? And we never even got a "thank you!". . .
Posted by: Darrell at May 24, 2007 07:50 AM (KgDxt)
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New Question on the Jimmy Carter Poll!
Over at
Instapundit.
Rock the VOTE!
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Conservatives Are Still Pissed.
John Hawkins is
threatening a "scorched earth" policy, involving "Google bombs" (something every legislator dreads, I'm sure).
I had dinner with Justene (of The Bear Flag League) last night, along with our husbands and a few other people—including She Who Will Not Practice Law. Justene and I agreed that although we hadn't studied the immigration bill thoroughly enough to have an informed opinion yet, it was very promising that both the left and the right were pissed about it.
I'll post more on it once I've had a chance to actually review the sucker. Though, as with all bills, there may be just a bit too much of it. Thanks to N.Z. Bear, whose dishy picture adorns the inside of many a Cotillion girl's locker door.
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The Dutchman
. . . is letting others see his fiction! Very
cool.
I really dug his faux reviews.
It reminds me of a story about David Linden, from when we were in high school: he used to draw these cool cartoons he called "mugwumps," and eventually (was he in college by then?) sent them off to several publishing houses. He got no takers (which is a shame, especially since he stopped drawing mugwumps soon thereafter), but his cover letter was apparently so witty that one publisher asked if he'd be interested in writing a collection of funny cover letters for (non-existent) literary submissions.
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