. . . are finally pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes.
has your links, with his usual acerbic commentary.
I don't think it's so bad here, because of the American tradition that ethnic groups take on the overall cultural imprint of the U.S.A., but my impression is that things are entirely out of control in Europe, and that it's long overdue for someone to say, "if you hate us so much, get the fuck out of here."
(No, no: I'm not for forcibly deporting anyone from any Western country because he/she is cranky. Some of my best friends are misanthropes. But there's a difference between having a cynical take on our political traditions and actively preaching violence against them. As a former member of the Communist Workers' Party, I know the difference. I sometimes wonder why my little group wasn't thoroughly investigated by the FBI when we were studying Marxism in the 80s. Then I realize that half the group probably were special agents.)
1
I have no problem at all with a law that requires a visitor to swear to respect our country and her institutions and practices. Further, I have no objection to returning to their country of origin anyone who abuses our hospitality. The removal process should be an administrative process, not a criminal prosecution. They have every right to express their opinions, just not here.
I believe this policy would be consistent with that of most other countries and definitely, of all Islamic countries.
Posted by: Walter E. Wallis at August 03, 2005 12:52 PM (xX0fS)
2
Now all we need to do is get Jerry Falwell to take this advice too, and we'll be set!
Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf at August 03, 2005 02:49 PM (IZsbU)
3
Actually, Falwell was mellowing out for a while, before that idiotic 9/11 remark.
Posted by: Attila Girl at August 03, 2005 07:24 PM (RGWNz)
4
Fallwell was born here. Rules should be different for alliens.
Posted by: Walter E. Wallis at August 03, 2005 08:22 PM (xX0fS)
5
That gets a little bit complicated. For instance, there are people who are here because we need their expertise.
I still believe that in Europe there is a particularly illiberal abuse of the liberal tradition (and I mean that phrase, of course, in the good way).
But I'm not really making a legal argument about where the line should be drawn: I'm making a moral argument about whether it's okay to emigrate to a country in order to take advantage of its freedoms (and, on occasion, system of entitlements) while publicly trashing those freedoms.
I don't think it's morally correct to do that. And I most certainly think it's overdue for people to speak out publicly about that particular double standard: at the very least, the most effective cure for bad speech is good speech. Right?
Posted by: Attila Girl at August 03, 2005 09:32 PM (RGWNz)
6
We don't need anyone that bad that we have to accept bad manners.
Posted by: Walter E. Wallis at August 04, 2005 12:05 PM (K6i9N)
7
But we did in the 40s and 50s. Right?
Posted by: Attila Girl at August 04, 2005 12:20 PM (RGWNz)
8
YOU used to be in the CWP? That's a hoot! How in the world did that come about?! And what kind of job did you have at the time?
Posted by: k at August 04, 2005 11:14 PM (6krEN)
9
Oh - before I forget - Mr. Wallis, you are absolutely and completely in the wrong. Saying that anyone has no right to express their opinions here - where ever they come from - violates both the letter and the spirit of our constitution, our body of laws, our body of rights.
Why do you want to defend something by saying it's in keeping with Islamic law, anyway?! I really don't want to see people like you turn our country into an Islamic state.
Posted by: k at August 04, 2005 11:21 PM (6krEN)
10
Yeah. Supposedly, somewhere in New York there's a picture of me in the CWP files. (Like I said, the files are probably really in the possession of the FBI.)
The distinction here on the legal side (not the politeness side) is probably something like the "yelling fire in a crowded theatre" argument: that is, when someone is actively fomenting violence--urging others to do people harm--that changes the nature of speech: it's no longer simply speech. This holds in a house of worship as much as it does in the town square.
Posted by: Attila Girl at August 05, 2005 12:35 AM (RGWNz)
11
Oh, I wouldn't dream of putting words in his mouth. He never said one word about fomenting violence. He was talking about bad manners. And, having no right to express their opinions if they're aliens. And that rules should be different for aliens.
What a load of anti-American bullshit.
Posted by: k at August 05, 2005 05:50 PM (6krEN)
12
CWP? Did you ever write about that and how you got out of it? I'm fascinated by the stories of liberals/leftists/commies who finally saw the light.
Did you ever read Ronald Radosh?
And yes, the feds have a file with your name on it. Fo' sho'.
Posted by: Daniel at August 05, 2005 09:15 PM (/N5LX)
13
You're impression was absolutely right.Thier should be control on every thing.
Posted by: Harry at August 05, 2005 11:33 PM (lul6E)
14
Well, I certainly read
The Romance of American Communism, and that was while I was still a Marxist.
I'm not really positive I count, because I was in the CWP in an attempt to save a doomed relationship.
As for migrating to the right--there were a lot of reasons. I'm sure my husband's influence was part of it. Certainly he got me past the first hurdle (assuming people on the right are necessarily intolerant assholes).
But the two issues that nudged me rightward the most were 1) guns, and 2) the Clinton administration. Certainly, after the Clinton scandals I was no longer comfortable calling myself a "feminist." The term had become tainted for me, after watching the self-proclaimed leadership of the women's movement make excuses for an exploitative individual with little or no respect for women.
I voted for Clinton in 1992, and against him in 1996. I had had enough.
Posted by: Attila Girl at August 09, 2005 02:55 AM (RGWNz)
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